Demodex Mites and Elastotic Degeneration

[drums]

Originally Posted by Brady Barrows

drums,
you seem to be in a cosmic entanglement with sweetness and light on another forum. However, as shown in your counterpart's thread, the results discussed in this other thread show little consistency in you theory as are all the theories for rosacea. Some say you are on to something while others say no. What Powell says is true, one of the problems with rosacea is "rosacea’s definition has been vague, that the etiology is unknown." The NRS has tried to classify rosacea and named ONE VARIANT. That has helped and Dr. Powell was instrumental in classifying rosacea since he was on the team that did it. However, this classification system has some controversy, especially how it implies a progression of the disease which the 'expert committee' who did this classification vigorously denies any progression of the disease. Powell goes into great details how one can get Type 3 without going through types one and two. Numbers imply progression. And what about all the other rosacea variants that are proposed by physicians who are not on the 'expert committee' formed by the NRS? These are completely ignored by the classification system. In short, the definition of rosacea is vague. And lack of sweating hasn't been on anyone's rosacea research paper as far as I know. But, maybe someone has studied this subject in a clinical paper and someone in this forum or another one will find such a paper that goes along with your theory.

Dear Mr Barrows,
Thank you very much for you opinion I read the link and am amazed that a totally different individual has basically almost the same ideas as myself and had identical experienced. The ideas for the most are basically similar in principle to my own theory yes at one time I did have the same scenario getting hot flushing but no sweating.
It was a problem for me and me being me have in my life always found a solution to all problems I ever encountered. So naturally I have had to find a solution for not sweating, which I have and now I can sweat. I postulated that the end stage of heat flushing should be sweating and because I hot flushed but did not sweat there was something missing and there must be a reason.
I tried to get absolutely red hot so had hot bath went to bed electric blanket on high no success still did not sweat. Thought about it well if I am flushing my hypothalamus must be doing its job for most part but why are my sweat glands not responding i.e. opening. Is it a nerve/neurotransmitter problem or is there a catalyst missing.
To cut a long story short my next step was to eat some chillies at the point when I was boiling hot under the same conditions as above. I did
get a positive response I started to perspire but not enough for me to be satisfied only my cheeks perspired not my nose.
Next step fed up with chillies so find something easier so moved onto brown sauce. Now this was exciting at last my whole face and nose was teaming with sweat and it cooled me down surprisingly also.
So there obviously was something missing and whatever it was it had to be in the brown sauce.
Anyhow!
I don’t wish to add any more at the moment it takes me time to type with one finger and I get fed up.

[Mistica]

Originally Posted by college_senior

Brady,

Thank you for being our Daniel Boone during our journey through rosacea.

My question is simple. I am going to visit my dermatologist, a very nice lady who prescribed me accutane for my acne back In January. I am acne free, but now developing P&P's around my nose and cheeks since ending the course three months ago.

I have permanent redness on my face, and it is all over like a mask. (Not just the cheeks or nose or forehead, but literally the whole face.)

Could demodex mites have something to do with this permanent redness? Should I have my derm do a skin scrape and check?

Here in Brisbane, a trial for topical Ivermection took place for P&P rosacea. Because no one knew what to do with me, it was decided I should also be treated, unofficially. I suffer from severe vascular rosacea. Like you, at the time, my face was like one complete beet red mask.
I did have some outbreaks over the bridge of my nose, under the eyes and along the nasolabial lines. These cleared up.
My redness was just as bad following treatment, thus topical ivermectin didn't help one bit.

However, those selected for the trial, whose main symtoms were significant outbreaks of P&P achieved complete clearance. Rachel was one of them. She posted in this thread.

[Brady Barrows]

Originally Posted by college_senior

Brady,

Thank you for being our Daniel Boone during our journey through rosacea.

My question is simple. I am going to visit my dermatologist, a very nice lady who prescribed me accutane for my acne back In January. I am acne free, but now developing P&P's around my nose and cheeks since ending the course three months ago.

I have permanent redness on my face, and it is all over like a mask. (Not just the cheeks or nose or forehead, but literally the whole face.)

Could demodex mites have something to do with this permanent redness? Should I have my derm do a skin scrape and check?

You might want to follow the thread about post-accutane rosacea. I don't know why getting a physician to take a demodex mite density test is such a big deal, but it may be due to the prevailing view because of misinformation on the subject that demodex is not a big player in rosacea. We know that it is not a major player, but relegating demodex to a minor player seems to be the reason physicians dismiss demodex and not take a skin scraping and examine in a microscope a demodex density count. If rosaceans would insist on such a test and find a physician willing to do this test, in time, probably years, there would be enough data available for clinicians to do some clinical studies on this subject to evaluate what role demodex has in rosacea, substantiating whether it truly is a minor player or what per cent of the rosacea population demodex is a major factor. Currently there are very few physicians encouraging demodex density counts. Powell is one of the few physicians encouraging demodex density counts and taking skin scrapings. Whether demodex is a factor in your rosacea only a test can confirm. Treating for demodex might indicate that is the problem if you get relief from the treatment but it would not confirm demodex unless you test for it.

[Brady Barrows]

Originally Posted by drums

Dear Mr Barrows,
Thank you very much for you opinion I read the link and am amazed that a totally different individual has basically almost the same ideas as myself and had identical experienced. The ideas for the most are basically similar in principle to my own theory yes at one time I did have the same scenario getting hot flushing but no sweating.
It was a problem for me and me being me have in my life always found a solution to all problems I ever encountered. So naturally I have had to find a solution for not sweating, which I have and now I can sweat. I postulated that the end stage of heat flushing should be sweating and because I hot flushed but did not sweat there was something missing and there must be a reason.
I tried to get absolutely red hot so had hot bath went to bed electric blanket on high no success still did not sweat. Thought about it well if I am flushing my hypothalamus must be doing its job for most part but why are my sweat glands not responding i.e. opening. Is it a nerve/neurotransmitter problem or is there a catalyst missing.
To cut a long story short my next step was to eat some chillies at the point when I was boiling hot under the same conditions as above. I did
get a positive response I started to perspire but not enough for me to be satisfied only my cheeks perspired not my nose.
Next step fed up with chillies so find something easier so moved onto brown sauce. Now this was exciting at last my whole face and nose was teaming with sweat and it cooled me down surprisingly also.
So there obviously was something missing and whatever it was it had to be in the brown sauce.
Anyhow!
I don’t wish to add any more at the moment it takes me time to type with one finger and I get fed up.

You really should start a new thread, as your alter no sweating persona did, but in this forum with your experience described above and get a friend to type for you so you can go into details about how you are stimulating your sweating for the long term for any others who may have this unusual problem. You may be on to something.

This thread is about demodex.

[Mistica]

I would like to see the following research take place.

If long term use of high doses of vitamin D3 proves to completely clear rosacea in other patients, I would like to know if the abnormal cathelicidin is still present.
In addition, I would like to know if the abnormal connective tissue normalizes, under the microscope, as well as visually.

I guess, what I am saying is, a vitamin D study should take place.
Trouble is, biopsies would be necessary and I for one wouldn't want anyone cutting pieces out of my face.
Blood tests and other non invasive methods could determine if the immune system was up and running properly and not in a state of immunosuppression.

The effects of high dose vitamin D on MS has been studied. Why not rosacea?

Dan is not the only one who undertook the triple antibiotic protocol and found his rosacea significantly improved.
There has to be something very worthwhile to study here.

The cynical side of me says no studies will be performed as there is no money to be made from vitamin D.
Rosacea is a big industry.

[Mistica]

This thread is about demodex.

I didn't think it was only about demodex. In the first post, there were two subject matters.
Demodex and degradation of connective tissue. The latter is open to many theories.

[Brady Barrows]

Originally Posted by Mistica

I didn't think it was only about demodex. In the first post, there were two subject matters.
Demodex and degradation of connective tissue. The latter is open to many theories.

I stand corrected. You are quite right. Elastotic Degeneration.

It was meant as a suggestion. When searching a forum one usually uses the title of the thread but there is an option in this forum search that allows searching through the posts.

[leesah]

I am new to researching Rosacea and learning that not all people suffering have had U.V damage.

So please excuse my ignorance with this question, but could those histologic studies have wrongly revealed the presence of significant solar elastotic degeneration because the rosacea inflammation itself actually degrades the skin in a similar manner as long term U.V exposure.

Does rosacea inflammation break down collogen, change the dermis and fibrillar structure and weaken the connective tissue?

Thanks, Leesah

[Brady Barrows]

Originally Posted by leesah

I am new to researching Rosacea and learning that not all people suffering have had U.V damage.

So please excuse my ignorance with this question, but could those histologic studies have wrongly revealed the presence of significant solar elastotic degeneration because the rosacea inflammation itself actually degrades the skin in a similar manner as long term U.V exposure.

Does rosacea inflammation break down collogen, change the dermis and fibrillar structure and weaken the connective tissue?

Thanks, Leesah

Actually that is a good question and insightful.

[Brady Barrows]

Originally Posted by leesah

I am new to researching Rosacea and learning that not all people suffering have had U.V damage.

Leesah,

While the jury is still out on whether UV light is a major or a minor player in rosacea there is evidence that this subject is still in the game with studies like this one:
Sunburn Might Play a Role in Rosacea
There are several other studies suggesting that UV damage might be at the core of the problem, but of course nothing conclusive, just suggestions and theories.