ETS Feedback

portallion · 5th November 2009, 09:43 PM

I realize that ETS is a very controversial subject on rosacea forums, but I am at a point where I am seriously considering the procedure. I have suffered from vascular flushing symptoms for the last 5 years and have tried most treatments that are discussed on this and other forums (IPL, clonidine, beta blockers, remeron, oracea, topicals, etc.) to no avail.

I am still researching on ETS but have met with a top notch thoracic surgeon at one of the best hospitals in the U.S. who performs T2 clamp procedures for facial blushing/flushing symptoms. Since the reports on ETS that pop up on the internet are so sensational, I thought I would inquire on this board to see what if any experiences could be shared about the clearance of flushing symptoms (from heat, stress/embarassment, alcohol triggers, etc.) and the severity of side effects.

Thanks for any advice you can offer, as this is a very serious decision, and not one that I take lightly.

BMBM · 5th November 2009, 10:47 PM

Hi Portallion

I'd suggest reading this thread, post #4 in particular:

http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosa...ad.php?t=19452

I've had ETS surgery so can speak from experience - it got rid of my blushing but has made my flushing worse. I'd go so far to say that ETS will do nothing for flushing. There are also a long list of side affects mentioned in GJ's post and many more besides.

It is a drastic step to take. You will find sensationalism from the people who want your money and you'll find reality from forums such as this.

GJ · 6th November 2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by portallion

I am still researching on ETS but have met with a top notch thoracic surgeon at one of the best hospitals in the U.S. who performs T2 clamp procedures for facial blushing/flushing symptoms.

Hi Portallion

An important point that should not be overlooked is that the competence and experience of the surgeon is of very little consequence. ETS is a very simple, destructive surgery; only a baboon could f**k it up. A cut done with aplomb is no more or less of a cut than one done done with hamfistedness. A clamp applied with dexterity, crushes no more or no less that a clamp applied with inelegant brutishness.

My guy was a pioneer in the field, done thousands of them but he, just like your guy, just like BMBM's guy only has a pretty glib understanding of the sympathetic nervous system. Modern science does not fully comprehend the central nervous system. Surgeons are destroying something, yet they don't fully know all that that something does.

There are always more things that can be tried. Keep in touch.

meg · 8th November 2009, 02:37 AM

I have had ETS for severe vascular flushing and it did not help at all. Not even a tiny bit! Thankfully I did not suffer any of the ill effects often mentioned, but it was clearly a waste of time. There are things that can help vascular flushing, although I have yet to find any cure. You can email me directly if you are interested in discussing things that are helping me a little and that might help you.
Best regards,
Meg

mattdog323 · 8th November 2009, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJ

Hi Portallion

An important point that should not be overlooked is that the competence and experience of the surgeon is of very little consequence. ETS is a very simple, destructive surgery; only a baboon could f**k it up. A cut done with aplomb is no more or less of a cut than one done done with hamfistedness. A clamp applied with dexterity, crushes no more or no less that a clamp applied with inelegant brutishness.

My guy was a pioneer in the field, done thousands of them but he, just like your guy, just like BMBM's guy only has a pretty glib understanding of the sympathetic nervous system. Modern science does not fully comprehend the central nervous system. Surgeons are destroying something, yet they don't fully know all that that something does.

There are always more things that can be tried. Keep in touch.

have u under taken ets??

I personally think the letters ETS should be banned from this form

portallion · 8th November 2009, 09:13 PM

Thanks for the very helpful feedback and the links to the other threads on ETS. I don't think I will be convincing myself to get the procedure given all the potential downsides. Some of you referenced other treatment options that might help with flushing. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have tried everything from IPL to topicials to all sorts of prescription drugs with little positive effect, but I would certainly appreciate any other ideas that have worked for some of you. Botox sounds interesting to me, but I don't know if I could even find aomewhere that performs botox treatments for facial flushing.

Thanks again for the help.

RedFaced · 9th November 2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by portallion

Thanks for the very helpful feedback and the links to the other threads on ETS. I don't think I will be convincing myself to get the procedure given all the potential downsides. Some of you referenced other treatment options that might help with flushing. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have tried everything from IPL to topicials to all sorts of prescription drugs with little positive effect, but I would certainly appreciate any other ideas that have worked for some of you. Botox sounds interesting to me, but I don't know if I could even find aomewhere that performs botox treatments for facial flushing.

Thanks again for the help.

From what I understand it is administered in the same way as people get it for wrinkles, so anywehre that is reputable and experienced with botox to facial areas should be able to help you out, just try calling them and asking some questions...would be a good idea to do a small area first such as one side of the upper cheek or wherever you flush the most that way you can compare to the other side and also in the rare case that you end up with a "frozen" face for 2 months, it will only be a small area and not your entire face.

Let us know what you find out and how it goes.

GJ · 9th November 2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by portallion

Thanks for the very helpful feedback and the links to the other threads on ETS. I don't think I will be convincing myself to get the procedure given all the potential downsides. Some of you referenced other treatment options that might help with flushing. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I have tried everything from IPL to topicials to all sorts of prescription drugs with little positive effect, but I would certainly appreciate any other ideas that have worked for some of you. Botox sounds interesting to me, but I don't know if I could even find aomewhere that performs botox treatments for facial flushing.

Thanks again for the help.

Two approaches that you should definitely consider, if you haven't already.

http://www.ausci.com/ROSACEA%20BOOKLET%202009.pdf

and

Low level light therapy. I would be inclined to go with infrared lights or a mixture of red and infrared.

Many flushers, many rosaceans, have been considerably helped by both. Me included.

If you are a blusher or feel that your thinking may have some impact on your condition then some form of talking therapy might be worth considering.

If you want to pursue botox - I have some reservations about it: its temporary nature; the narrow scope of its efficacy - then Dr Patterson has certainly some history with this (I don't think his website mentions it explicitly).

Contact, especially from a peer (he is, I fancy, quite busy

) might prompt him to reveal some of his experience. If you have a US practitioner in mind, this might be an idea..

http://www.woodfordmedical.com/

Good luck. BTW should you ever find yourself thinking upon surgery again, go back to the top notch hospital and ask a neurologist what he thinks of it.