pycnocgenol and grape seed extract??

[Sandra]

Hi all,
I've looked all over and I see that everytime I am looking for pycnocgenol supplement,,you have to take grape seed supplement to.... Is it nessecary to take both or can I just take the pycnocgenol alone.. I'd love to order the stuff together, but with the exchange and everything It'll cost a fortune.. So I was wondering if only taking pycnocogenol would be just as benifical.. Pleaseeeeeee say yes!!

[nikkitn]

Dr. Nase posted this a while back. Hope it helps shed some light...

Hello group,


Now here is a chance to offer opposing information in a constructive
fashion. Logan's research has lead him to deduce several things.
Based on strong competition between grape seed extract and
pycnogenol on the Internet, it is very difficult to make a choice.
Logan has read that Pycnogenol is not the best supplement and that
grape seed extract is the way to go. There is a lot of information
indicating this. He has also indicated that grape seed extract is
not very bioavailable (eg. not easily absorbed) and thus must be
bound to lipid molecules to help it pass through the gut and into
the blood stream. That information is also out there.


My research into these products and clinical experience with both do
not suggest this. While Pycnogenol and Grape seed extract have the
same active ingredient (and grape seed has a slightly higher
percentage), both nutraceuticals have dozens of different cofactors
that have a huge impact on blood vessel strength, proper growth and
inflammation. My studies have brought me to the conclusion that no
one knows which nutraceutical is better for blood vessels in the
human body (the real test). This is why I take a mixture of both by
Source Naturals.


The second point is that certain companies do have excellent carrier
devices to help hard to absorb products get into the blood stream.
An example would be most minerals in a multivitamin. Minerals are
not absorbed well at all in this form and thus must be chelated to
an amino acid. So you chelate zinc (which is poorly absorbed by
itself) to an amino acid to make it one molecule. In the intestine,
the amino acid is transported into the blood stream via amino acid
transporters and zinc piggy backs a ride into the blood stream and
is home free. So, everyone taking centrum, one of the most popular
multivitamins on this earth should know that it is a good supplier
of vitamins but terrible supplier of minerals. Back to the
absorption of grape seed and pycnogenol -- they both have excellent
bioavailability (over 95% bioavailable) and can be measured in the
blood stream and even saliva within 20 minutes of swallowing.


So. Logan has read information on grape seed extract/pycnogenol and
presented it and I have read information on the same subject but
came to a different conclusion. Now you folks can read up, see both
sides of the story and make up your own minds. The research on
pycnogenol and grape seed extract have been added below Logan's
post. You really cant go wrong with either nutraceutical.