Doubting the "weak immune system" theory I keep seeing people mention in threads.

[oopsiedaisy]

Personally, I know that my immune system is actually in overdrive (i.e. - "too strong" as opposed to "too weak"). I developed Rosacea in 2005, and then Multiple Sclerosis in 2007. MS is an autoimmune inflammatory disease (as Rosacea also appears to be).

Other autoimmune / inflammatory conditions run in my family, including eczema, hives, allergies, hypothyroidism, and Type 1 (juvenile onset) diabetes.

This cannot be a coincidence.

I am curious as to how many others with Rosacea have family histories involving autoimmune / inflammatory diseases.

[Mistica]

Personally, I know that my immune system is actually in overdrive (i.e. - "too strong" as opposed to "too weak"). I developed Rosacea in 2005, and then Multiple Sclerosis in 2007. MS is an autoimmune inflammatory disease (as Rosacea also appears to be).

Other autoimmune / inflammatory conditions run in my family, including eczema, hives, allergies, hypothyroidism, and Type 1 (juvenile onset) diabetes.

This cannot be a coincidence.

I am curious as to how many others with Rosacea have family histories involving autoimmune / inflammatory diseases.

I am not sure weak immune system is quite the right wording.

There are several theories as to what causes autoimmunity. Self attack is one. But more and more scientists feel that infections are involved. Often stealth infections. They live inside the immune system/white cells. There is a website dedicated to this. Cpnhelp.org. There are many MS sufferers there. Some have gone into permanent remission after the long and difficult combined antibiotic course. Some have not improved much. I guess it depends on which pathogens are involved.

As you point out, these autoimmune diseases often run in families. I expect there is some degree of genetic tendency. But it seems to be more than that.
Faulty gut based immune systems run in families too, as the gut flora is passed from mother to infant and probably shared between family members due to close contact. Typical western diet is a major tigger factor.

If you can manipulate the gut flora to become healthy again, systemic diseases often lessen, or go away completely, but the process seems to be very difficult.

There are quite a few rosaceans and a couple of flushers who healed completely during the Cpn protocol.

Quite a few here have healed by treating their guts.

I am currently undergoing gut treatment under the care of a specialist ( having failed the cpn treatment due to nasty and rare side effects). This specialist has successfully treated Parkinson's and MS patients with gut based antibiotics and Faecal transplants. He has his own research facility.

So, this really begs the question, what is autoimmunity exactly?

Seeing you have MS, I would encourage you to browse through the Cpnhelp.org website and read in particular the story of Sarah Wheldon, wife of Dr Wheldon, microbiologist in the UK. ( He is retired now). Sarah was on death's doorstep and now, is living a good quality life. She has some permanent limp and probably a few other things, due to irreversible brain lesions, but the disease has halted and she has undergone great recovery in most ways.

I hope you find something that works for you Read everything you can.

To answer your question...

Recently I found out two other people in my family have what appears to be mild rosacea. Not the severe flushing kind I have.

One of these, an aunt of mine, has type one motor neurone disease and the outlook is dismal.

Both of my sisters ( half sisters... from each side of the family) have terrible migraines. One is severe.
One caught a nasty respiratory infection about 12 years ago and it was all downhill from there. Some skin issues followed.

There is some mild eczema in the family.

I was fine, until I got scarlet fever, respiratory infections including pneumonia, gut infection, and developed melasma. When I tried to treat the melasma with retin-a, I developed rosacea, then a bunch of other problems.

Lots of people here have additional health problems, including thyroid disease, autommune disease, fibromyalgia, bowel, digestive issues.

[oopsiedaisy]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I am familiar with Dr. Wheldon's work. There is actually very little evidence to support the idea of MS as being triggered / caused / exacerbated by bacteria though; hence, it makes no sense to treat with long-term, high-dose antibiotics.

Most of the research points to probably a viral cause for MS, e.g. - a common virus that in some people triggers an inflammatory immune response. Most likely this is a virus within the "herpes family" of viruses (which includes HSV-1 and 2, Chicken Pox, Mono, HHV-6, and various others).

Therefore, I have no interest in pursuing long-term, high-dose antibiotic therapy for MS.

I'm doing quite well on Rebif 44mcg.

Again, thank you.

[betazoid]

Most of the research points to probably a viral cause for MS, e.g. - a common virus that in some people triggers an inflammatory immune response. Most likely this is a virus within the "herpes family" of viruses (which includes HSV-1 and 2, Chicken Pox, Mono, HHV-6, and various others).

Therefore, I have no interest in pursuing long-term, high-dose antibiotic therapy for MS.

I'm doing quite well on Rebif 44mcg.

Again, thank you.

As someone with rosacea who has also been diagnosed with MS (well, really CIS unless I have a second attack, THEN it will be MS), I agree with you about it not being bacterial in origin, and also agree with the possibility that it is viral in origin.

My working theory is that the virus lies dormant until our bodies/minds become stressed (either too highly or for too long a period of time). Once our internal reserves that keep our system in balance are spent, the immune system kicks into overdrive, possibly in a way that would have been helpful back in the caveman days (when stress was more likely caused by an injury or infection than by a rude and punitive boss or spouse, etc.).

Gluten may be part of the problem, and dairy (lactose) may be as well.

One thing that is most interesting (and frustrating) to me is that so many of the things that are GOOD for preventing another MS attack are considered BAD for rosacea (if one believes the theories about tannins and acidic foods to be valid anyway). If I were to eliminate everything from my diet that might exacerbate both MS and rosacea, I think I'd be left with ...what? Asparagus?

Thankfully my rosacea is relatively mild and I am able to manage it most days with Noritate cream, and double-thankfully, my MS is in remission and I have yet to experience a second attack (knock wood!).

I am currently eating a low-inflammatory, paleo-type diet and am noticing that minimizing the amount of sugar in my diet has done wonders for my skin, but it may also be that I am just taking better care of myself all-around -- meditating, doing yoga, cardio, and weights, etc.

It will be interesting to see what shakes out. I'm not entirely convinced that demodex mites are not to blame but I'm too much of a princess to give up my favorite goose-down pillow. ;-)

[nat007]

I also think that for some people with rosacea, an overactive immune system may be at its root, not a weak immune system. Like pointed out here by people much more knowledgeable than me, it is the overactive, out of control immune system that tends to create inflammation in the body. I started off with colitis, an auto immune bowel inflammation and rosacea started some years after that, triggered by a combination of short but severe stress, hormone changes and steroid cream. I think it triggered the immune system at the time and the inflammatory substances that are created by the own body, results in stuff like vasodilatation, allergies, inflammation etc for me. The fact that more auto immune and inflammatory issues followed over the years strengthens this suspicion for me (cartilage inflammation, arthritis in the knees, Raynaud's etc). I test positive on ANA (auto immune blood-)tests which indicates that it is at least a factor in my personal inflammation issues.

Strangely enough, nobody in my family has rosacea, but one section has a lot of arthritis and blood vessel issues and the other branch has eczema and allergies.

[Melissa W]

I also think that for some people with rosacea, an overactive immune system may be at its root, not a weak immune system. Like pointed out here by people much more knowledgeable than me, it is the overactive, out of control immune system that tends to create inflammation in the body. I started off with colitis, an auto immune bowel inflammation and rosacea started some years after that, triggered by a combination of short but severe stress, hormone changes and steroid cream. I think it triggered the immune system at the time and the inflammatory substances that are created by the own body, results in stuff like vasodilatation, allergies, inflammation etc for me. The fact that more auto immune and inflammatory issues followed over the years strengthens this suspicion for me (cartilage inflammation, arthritis in the knees, Raynaud's etc). I test positive on ANA (auto immune blood-)tests which indicates that it is at least a factor in my personal inflammation issues.

Strangely enough, nobody in my family has rosacea, but one section has a lot of arthritis and blood vessel issues and the other branch has eczema and allergies.

Yes, I tend to agree with this Nat. I also think it has to do with an overactive sympathetic nervous system.

In my family there is a history of rheumatoid arthritis (mom), osteoarthritis (mom), raynauds (me), asthma (me, dad, sister), allergies (me,dad,sister), eczema (me), and some others I am sure I am forgetting about. So definitely autoimmune history.