Ketogenic Diet vs Low Carb

[johny]

Hi, i'm wondering if anyone here is on a Keto diet. Personally, a low carb diet ie 50-150g or so of carb a day for me hasn't proven to be effective for my seborrheic dermatitis really at all. Contrarily, when consuming less than 50g of carb a day and being in a state of ketosis has done me very well.

I've done well for example on a strict candida free diet a few years ago and recently on again a very low carb paleo approach both diets were less than 50g of carb a day.

However, when i've done, gluten free, dairy free, grain free etc. approach where i avoid all the common irritants and follow a moderate (about 100g of carb) low carb approach my skin doesn't get any better. I've recently been eating fruits and potatoes and all the benefits I saw from my keto type diet have now disappeared within a few weeks of adding these paleo friendly carb sources back into my diet.

So my question is for those out there on low carb, how low do you go to see results? For me results only come when i'm in ketosis. I'm planning on going back onto a keto diet possibly for life after I finish all the fruit in my apartment. I'm only a quarter of a century old and i've lived with this shit for over half my life, i'm so fucking pissed and fed up this shit.

[flying_er]

Hi, i'm wondering if anyone here is on a Keto diet. Personally, a low carb diet ie 50-150g or so of carb a day for me hasn't proven to be effective for my seborrheic dermatitis really at all. Contrarily, when consuming less than 50g of carb a day and being in a state of ketosis has done me very well.

I've done well for example on a strict candida free diet a few years ago and recently on again a very low carb paleo approach both diets were less than 50g of carb a day.

However, when i've done, gluten free, dairy free, grain free etc. approach where i avoid all the common irritants and follow a moderate (about 100g of carb) low carb approach my skin doesn't get any better. I've recently been eating fruits and potatoes and all the benefits I saw from my keto type diet have now disappeared within a few weeks of adding these paleo friendly carb sources back into my diet.

So my question is for those out there on low carb, how low do you go to see results? For me results only come when i'm in ketosis. I'm planning on going back onto a keto diet possibly for life after I finish all the fruit in my apartment. I'm only a quarter of a century old and i've lived with this shit for over half my life, i'm so fucking pissed and fed up this shit.

I'm on a low carb diet, generally in the range of 40 - 60g of carbs per day. The low carb diet advocated by Brady Barrows states that carbs should be limited to 25 or 30g per day. I believe many people on this site practice a low carb diet but exactly how low I don't know.

-Dave-

[christine123]

Hi, i'm wondering if anyone here is on a Keto diet. Personally, a low carb diet ie 50-150g or so of carb a day for me hasn't proven to be effective for my seborrheic dermatitis really at all. Contrarily, when consuming less than 50g of carb a day and being in a state of ketosis has done me very well.

I've done well for example on a strict candida free diet a few years ago and recently on again a very low carb paleo approach both diets were less than 50g of carb a day.

However, when i've done, gluten free, dairy free, grain free etc. approach where i avoid all the common irritants and follow a moderate (about 100g of carb) low carb approach my skin doesn't get any better. I've recently been eating fruits and potatoes and all the benefits I saw from my keto type diet have now disappeared within a few weeks of adding these paleo friendly carb sources back into my diet.

So my question is for those out there on low carb, how low do you go to see results? For me results only come when i'm in ketosis. I'm planning on going back onto a keto diet possibly for life after I finish all the fruit in my apartment. I'm only a quarter of a century old and i've lived with this shit for over half my life, i'm so fucking pissed and fed up this shit.

Hi johny,

I recommend getting a food intolerance test done (NOT a food allergy test, they are different).

Sebhorreic dermatitis is commonly seen as a fungal infection of the face. Have you tried the raw honey and coconut oil topical method that has been posted here? Both of these things are antifungal in nature. Usually sebhorreic dermatitis needs some kind of topical to get rid of completely. Diet will not be enough to knock it out. I've heard that it takes a good month of religious use but that usually it is sufficient to knock it out, after which just periodically as a preventative.

JFYI, a ketogenic diet actually causes fasting blood sugar to increase and also has been implicated in candida problems (counter-intuitive I know, but it makes sense as during ketosis your body forces fasting blood sugar to increase in order that it doesn't drop too low). Have you tried eating just rice? You may be fructose-intolerant which would explain why fruit is causing you a lot of problems.

[johny]

Ok, so Brady recommends a ketogenic diet than? does he inform people that it is a keto diet? too many diets use ketosis without informing the reader what they are truly doing and claiming any number or reasons for the success they may get which is very misleading.

Christine, since I found out my skin condition was seb derm (took years), I have tried everything under the sun and yes the honey/coconut method too. It started out promising but failed. I've had allergy testing, no real food allergies. To be honest, I feel that whole science very weak on food allergy/intolerances etc. People end up being afraid of food that aren't really hurting them and it creates a whole bunch of problems. I been around so many diets for the last 5 years it's ridiculous. I've read that Candida blah blah ketones can be counterproductive, it was not true for me and if it was, then Candida and it's role in causing seb derm is overblown. The induction phases of these numerous low carb (candida free/atkins/low carb paleo/list goes on) diets all relatively similar have always done well for me, it's always been when adding back the carbs that my skin reverts back to being shitty.

Keto, I don't believe is a cure but from personal experience it is the best eating approach for my skin. Now whether a cyclic keto diet or technical keto diet would work like a standard keto diet i'm not sure. I have been in ketosis for months around 3 twice in the past and felt GREAT, it was only after that 3 month window when I really felt a bit worn down but that was probably because i'm very active and had little knowledge of what I was truly doing (Ie in ketosis) and not eating enough fat or perhaps did need a carb up?

The best info i've found on keto diets is from bodybuilding.com, they actually have a sub-forum on keto dieting for anyone interested.

Basically there are a few ways to approach it.

There is the Standard Keto Diet which is eating less than 50g of carb a day with a ratio of calories coming from about 65% fat, 30% protein (1g per lean body mass), and 5% carb (from non-starchy veggies). Ideal for people who aren't very active (ie. play sports, run a lot or lift heavy weights).

Then there is the Cyclic Keto Diet where after two weeks of keto eating you initiate a 1-2 day carb refeed once a week or every two weeks, depending on goals or activity level. On the refeed days, you intake around 4g of carb per lean body weight and little fat with again 1g of protein per lean body weight. On this one you get knocked out of ketosis for a couple or a few days a week depending on a number of things.

Then the Targeted Keto Diet I believe it's called where you intake small amounts of carb pre and post workout normally in powder form like a dextrose powder. If you are lifting heavy or running long or doing HIIT (high intensity interval training) you should stay in ketosis for the most part throughout this diet.

A keto healthy diet would consist of lots of good FAT and green leafy vegetables. It is a high fat diet, not really a high protein diet in comparison to bodybuilders but probably still higher than most are used too. One thing people screw up on though is consuming too much protein and not enough fat and also not consuming veggies. Green veggies are very low in carbs and any fiber is subtracted from the carb count so greens should be eaten heavily.

Just a quick note, there is no such thing as an essential carb, while there are essential amino acids (proteins) and essential fatty acids. Ketosis is safe long term, don't believe anyone who tells you differently they don't know what they're talking about.

[johny]

*directly from BB.com thread* http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=120288141

I can't seem to get enough fats?

This is a common post and I would personally say that fats is the easiest thing to get in keto.

The easiest solution is putting a serving of fats with each meal. Roughly 14 grams of fat.
These are straight fat foods with little or no protein and little or no carbs. Note Avocado has carbs but they are crossed out by the high fiber.

Just look at the numbers. They are not precise depending on brands but they are very very close.

Olive Oil - 14 grams of fat, 120 calories (1 tablespoon)
Coconut Oil - 14 grams of fat, 120 calories (1 Tablespoon)
Flax Oil - 14 grams of fat, 120 calories (1 tablespoon)
Fish Oil - 14 grams of fat, 120 calories (1 tablespoon)

Heavy whipped cream - 5 grams of fat, 50 calories (1 tablespoon)
Coconut Milk - 9 grams of fat, 90 calories (1/2 cup)
Sour Cream - 5 grams of fat, 50 calories (2 tablespoon)
Mayo - 10 grams of fat, 100 calories (1 tablespoon)
Salad Dressing (high fat dressing) - 6 grams of fat, 60 calories (1 tablespoon)


Olives - 2.5 grams of fat, 25 calories (5 green olives)
Avocado - 21 grams of fat, 227 calories (1 avocado)

Almonds - 15 grams of fat, 160 calories (1 ounce or 22 nuts)


So how do I use my fats?

Flax Oil - Perfect in protein drinks
Olive Oil - Perfect to top just about any food you cook or salads. Fried eggs go well.
Coconut oil - Shallow Fry your eggs in coconut oil. Shallow Fry your chicken and all other meats in coconut oil. Taste great. Coconut oil gets hard under 76 degrees so not really ideal with protein drinks but add 1/2 to 1 tablespoon to your morning coffee.
Fish oil - drinks, supplements, take straight with a tablespoon


Heavy whipped creams - mix with your eggs and scramble. Goes great with protein drinks
Coconut milk - mix with drinks and eggs. Make low carb muffins.
Sour Cream - put with just about any meal you cook. Top your meats, salads, etc.
Mayo and Salad dressing - perfect for tuna salad. Goes great with any meats to make a nice creamy dish. You don't need a lot, just one serving will be enough.

Olives - supplements with any dinner your cook, salads.
Avocado - Supplements with any dinner you cook or make guacamole if you cannot handle the plain taste of avocado.

Almonds - I suggest 1 serving a day no more than 2 a day. Keep a can at work to cover any hunger pains between breakfast and lunch or if you skip lunch and don't feel like leaving your office. High in fiber so don't worry about the carbs. Especially if you only eat 1 or 2 servings. More than enough in a day and you don't have to eat them everyday.


You should have no problem meeting your macros if you incorporate these oils in all of your meals. This does not include fats from your meats. So you will meet your fat macros. Also most protein drinks you make don't taste bad with two servings of oils. I personally put flax oil, cream and coconut milk in just one protein drink. They do not dominate the flavor of drinks. You could easily get 500 calories in one drink and mostly fat.


Note: This will be updated.

[Anthony16]

Hi johny,how are u?
Can i just ask,when u said u see no improvement in your skin from "lower" carb diet i.e. not ketogenic and u do see an improvement when ketogenic,can i ask,
If u were to load up on soda,apple pie,chocolate,fast food would your skin be the same as if u were eating a low carb diet but not ketogenic?
Sorry if it sounds a bit confusing
Thanks
A

[johny]

^ I'd say not quite but close. I just wonder how many people who do these anti-candida/lower carb diets without knowing it are actually slipping in and out of ketosis without knowing it.

[Anthony16]

^ I'd say not quite but close. I just wonder how many people who do these anti-candida/lower carb diets without knowing it are actually slipping in and out of ketosis without knowing it.

Ya,i dont think i really believe in the whole candida thing.I think the reason some people cure their problems on these diets is they stop putting garbage in their body and replace it with really healthy stuff.
I dont know if low carb "starves candida" but maybe ketosis is beneficial to certain ailments.
Nobody knows if its safe long term though but surely much safer than the standard american diet

[DianaLynn]

Johnny,
My naturopath said that if you are reacting to carbs, it is likely a gut imbalance, often candida. So eliminating what feeds invasive bacteria and yeasts may yield results, but it does not necessarily restore the gut. Inflammation may still be present after doing a candida reducing diet, the liver function may be sub par. A comprehensive system that addresses healing the gut may still be necessary.
This would involve food combining that puts less stress on the digestive system- the intestines, liver and pancreas. Not just foods that are lower in insulin producing properties (low carb). Proper probiotic replacement is also necessary for ideal assimilation. Kefir and fermented vegetables are far superior to supplements.
My naturopath suggested the Body Ecology Diet. It offers a comprehensive, relatively easy and sane plan to restore the digestive system that has been compromised for any reason, not just candida. It is also low carb. It does take time to rebuild. What works for one does not mean it works for all, but It is working for me.

[johny]

^ hope you continue to see results. I've done everything you said many times before but the results weren't there. They are only present on an ultra low carb approach which in reality is a diet that prompts ketosis.

So, i'm just starting back on a diet now to induce ketosis and it is actually a MAD (modified atkins diet) which is similar to a ketogenic diet but the ratio of fat to protein is a bit lower. On a keto diet the ratio per gram of fat to protein is 4:1, whereas on a MAD diet it's closer to 2:1. It also allows for more carbohydrate at about 30g. I bought ketostix and will check regularly to see if i'm in ketosis, I will have around 30g of carb a day with another 15 in a post workout shake which should get me into ketosis but we'll see everyone is different.

A lot of the nutrition on a regular ketogenic diet is pretty bad but that's because it is designed so that kids with epilepsy will have compliance with it. As an adult who has some self control I put nutrition ahead of taste at this point. Not saying a keto type diet can't be tasty though. For example, they recommend tons of cream which I substitute for coconut oil (medium chain triglyceride), flax oil, olive oil, or coconut milk, etc. for a healthier fat.

Also mct's enable ketosis to take place at higher carb rates, so you can allow yourself around 50g of carb a day and still probably achieve ketosis.