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Thread: Reversing Bacteria-induced Vitamin D Receptor Dysfunction Is Key to Autoimmune Diseas

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    Default Reversing Bacteria-induced Vitamin D Receptor Dysfunction Is Key to Autoimmune Diseas

    Found this online and thought was interesting... Didnt Gallo say something about Vit D Receptor (VDR) dysfunction in his research????

    http://autoimmunityresearch.org/prep...09Preprint.pdf
    Doug

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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    This paper is related to the work of Gallo, et al, since it reports:

    "One of the most importanteffects of VDR activation is its ability to increasethe innate immune response, including theproduction of antimicrobial peptides, which areimportant in controlling a wide variety ofpathogens. The importance of innate/naturalimmunity has been increasingly recognized inautoimmune disease, as well."

    While the paper doesn't cite Gallo in the references, this paper does relate to his work.


    This is an interesting statement:

    "It is increasingly recognized that bacteria canpersist as cell wall deficient variants (a.k.a. L-forms), and as “persister” forms withinmetagenomic bacterial communities. Biofilmcommunities are protected by a polymeric matrixthat allow bacteria to survive both immune systemattack and antibiotic administration. Bacteriahave been observed in intracellular inclusions in anumber of autoimmune diseases and have beenobserved persisting within phagocytes."

    It may be that bacteria is still in the running as a cause of rosacea since the bacteria theory has been around a long time.

    I will have to keep reading and digesting this paper. Thanks for the link and sharing this with us.
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    I could see bad bacteria in the gut leading to infection leading to bad immune system leading to Rosacea. I wonder if higher levels of Vit D are needed to "normalize" the Vit D receptor and help kill off the bacteria/infection. Most people need Vit D levels in the 50-70 range but once you have a disease you need much more to fight that disease or at least control it.

    IS there a test that can measure the bad vs good bacteria in your gut? IS there a general test that could tell you if you have an infection? Does hight body fat lead to more bad bacteria in the gut?

    Thoughts?
    Doug

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    More thoughts...

    You would think Rosacea would have some connection to the gut since so many people seem to improve once they cut out or lower carbs/sugar.. so they are not feeding the bad bacteria and thus killing it off. Also, so many foods, liquors, etc are triggers for Rosaceans and so you would think the gut is involved...

    I have read it can take a long time to kill off the bad bacteria and restore the gut flora to a normal level again so patience is key!!
    Doug

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    I have been reading a high fiber diet helps a lot with your gut.

    SO I am thinking..

    • High Fiber Diet (30-40g per day)
      very low sugar/carbs or none at all
      Lots of probiotics (how much?)
      Vit D (levels 80-100ng)
      moderate exercise


    What else can we add? Also, I believe Mask takes 100 billion probiotics per day but I wonder if we took much more if that would be beneficial??

    Thoughts and comments!
    Doug

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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    The paper suggests that increased Vitamin D supplementation suppresses the innate immune system function. Initially there is a short term improvement but in the long term is suppresses it.

    "Thus, at least two mechanisms exist by which vitamin D supplementation could suppress innate immune system function. This suppression would lead to short-term improvements in patients taking higher levels of vitamin D by slowing bacterial death and subsequent immunopathological reactions. Therefore, studies that evaluate the role of vitamin D supplementation in chronic inflammatory diseases should take into account the potential for short-term symptom reduction, but exacerbation of the disease process over the long-term due to pathogen increase."
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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Default One more post on this......

    The paper suggest treatment with oimesartan


    "Upon administration of the VDR agonist olmesartan, most patients with autoimmune diseases experience a significant change in their symptom level due to a combination of olmesartan’s effect on VDR activation and its palliative effects on other receptors."


    Olmesartan medoxomil (trade names: Benicar in the US, Olmetec in EU and Canada, WinBP, Golme in India, Erastapex in Egypt) is an angiotensin II receptor antagonist used to treat high blood pressure.


    Then the authors suggest using a new antibiotic treatment:


    "The use of pulsed, subinhibitory, bacteriostatic antibiotics is an important part of this approach. Research indicates that most standard antibiotic protocols used so far to treat chronic inflammatory diseases are ineffective,35 and so new ways of using antibiotics are called for to deal with the relative treatment resistance of the bacteria involved. For instance, many antibiotics will not be effective because they target cell walls and this actually promotes the production of cell wall deficient forms of bacteria.18 Furthermore, when taken at high dosages, many antibiotics are able to cause potentially significant inhibition of phagocytic functioning."

    My comment is that more antibiotic treatment in a new approach isn't going to help rosacea in the long term at all. It may help in the short term, but everyone knows that long term antibiotic treatment for rosacea has proved to be not a good idea. Rosaceans may need it for a short term but in the long term they need to get off antibiotics.


    The authors say that "diseases responding to treatment include systemic lupus erythematosus" among others. Lupus erythematosus is a rosacea mimic.


    The paper concludes with the following:


    "Increasing evidence indicates that vitamin D supplementation can contribute to bacteria-induced dysfunction of the VDR."


    My comments after a cursory reading of the article is that while there are indications that this paper is related to the research Gallo, et. al, is engaged in, particularly the theory that rosacea is a dysfunction of the innate immune system with increased cathlecidin production it appears to me that there are still too many unanswered questions. The authors of this article mention:


    "Further research is needed on various aspects of the model and anti-bacterial protocol."


    This is a common denominator with many of these papers which illicits the need for more funding for research.

    By the way, I have increased eating yogurt about five times per week at lunch along with a daily capsule of 2 billion active culture of acidolphilus and have noticed improvement. There must be something to the theory that antibiotics for rosacea isn't a good idea in the long run.
    Last edited by Brady Barrows; 11th January 2012 at 01:19 AM.
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    has anyone tried Benicar?
    Doug

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    Never tried Benicar, but I see there must be some kind of chicken-egg relationship with rosacea/bacteria/high bp and everything else in the spiral discussed in this thread. The bacteria probably does damage to blood vessels and this is expressed as inflammation AND often as high BP.

    I've already been through every antibiotic under the sun. And then I found out better.

    So, I have to say that I think Benicar would likely end up in the same pile as antibiotics for rosacea: works for a bit, then stops and might even make things worse, because underneath the medicinal effects of the antibiotics or the Benicar the rosacea is still progressing. There needs to be a natural, systemic cooling down of the organs for real healing to take place.

    As humble as it sounds, I think the place to begin is with learning meditation: really being dedicated to doing it. The learning IS the meditation. It's harmless and it's free.

    G
    "It's all illusion anyway."

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    Senior Member Brady Barrows's Avatar
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    Benicar (Olmesartan medoxomil) is an antihypertensive agent, not an antibiotic.
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