Update on Super-Duper LED array

[IowaDavid]

Hi, everyone. I'm posting to update my progress with my homemade LED array. Currently, I am using an array that has 876 red LEDs at 660nm wavelength and a 30 degree viewing angle. I do between 20-60 minutes of total exposure to this light source each day (it varies on how impatient I am or how interesting NPR is during my exposure time. :o ).

Things that struck me as "momentous" of late--whereas I used to not be able to hold one of my cats up near my face or torso (ambient warmth), today, I was lying down on the couch, with a blanket on me, and had my cat on my chest for over an hour. The back of my neck/head (where all the brain-blood goes through and triggers the hypothalamus to initiate a flush) was on a normal pillow. I felt the warmth at the back of my head, but this didn't initiate a flush, and I was with kitty for 90 minutes or so in this position, sort of testing my limits. He jumped away, however, so I didn't get a good endurance test. Also--I had no fan on me during this time to cool me.

I don't need my Chillow anymore, either. I can actually sleep on a normal pillow and wake up looking normal--even with the cumulative contact heat with the pillow as a trigger for one side of my face or the other. Also, I'm finding clonidine is less and less a mandatory medicine. If I had to choose, I would choose 60 minutes of red-light therapy each day over my clonidine.

Anyway, I know some of these "forward" steps sound ridiculous to some of the people here. Sometimes I have to laugh at myself when I consider how my lifestyle has been altered by this disease. But, right now, having my cat on my chest for 90 minutes while covered by a blanket, without use of cold water or misting of my face, while the back of my head is warming itself against a couch pillow--that's hardcore progress for my case.

I just wanted to share my experience. I attribute a large proportion of my progress to red-light therapy.

We all know our faces and how they react to tiny things--there's a reason we check our faces for diffuse redness, flushing, several times a day.

I've been using red light therapy for around 8 months now.

I've been dealing with rosacea since I was 21. I'm 27 now.

To be frank: red light therapy is the single best option I have found for actually suppressing--beating the beast back--to date.

I'm coming close to 30 thermal laser treatments. I still get them, because they serve a purpose that my other treatment modalities can't fulfill: they take out damaged vasculature and diffuse redness.

However, given my anecdotal experience with red light therapy--

If one of my closest friends came to me saying he had rosacea, I would tell him exactly 1) What equipment to buy and 2) How to assemble it for self-treatment.

I really don't know how to make this more explicit:

If you're interested in red light therapy, PM me. I can show you how to build your own unit. I have no monetary interest here. Also, I'd venture to say that red light therapy will not cause irritability or flushing as a response, when used appropriately. However, if someone can show me differently I would LOVE to find where the level of red light exposure becomes detrimental.

Anyway, while we're all waiting for topicals that will wrangle our common disease down, it is difficult for me to sit back and be silent about a treatment modality that has helped me so much, when I continue to see laser doctors that can't talk to me intelligently about front-line rosacea light treatment and no beneficial treatment modalities offered for recalcitrant cases like myself.

OK. :o

I don't want to sound stale, and I feel like an audio loop on infinite repeat, but this is, in my estimation, the best available treatment modality I've found and used.
Again, PM me--it's not difficult to build your own unit. I taught myself the wiring and physics.
I find it idiotic to sit here and talk about herbals or topicals or future-drugs when one could be helping one's self each day while waiting.

But, again, this is all anecdotal experience--I am just sharing my personal experience and understanding.

David

[KHM]

Do the LEDs give off any heat?

I tried one of the fluorescent units and even the small amount of heat they give off flushed me.

[IowaDavid]

Yes. Concentrated LED arrays can give off heat. However, LEDs are very efficient at delivering energy at a specific wavelength of light, rather than sending off thermal, unhelpful photons.

UV is totally different from low-level redlight therapy (660nm vs. 420nm). That's roughly analagous to equating sunlight to IPL--"Light is light--it doesn't make any difference."

I use that example to make it clear: We have several different modalities of light treatment available to us, and each of them must be understood separately. I'm just trying to share my experiences with my low-level red light LED array.


David

[Peter]

Hello David

It amazes me how far you have come now with your LED now and you deserve much credit for having the guts and expertise to go out there and build your own unit. You also should be thanked for being prepared to spend your own time helping others to follow this form of treatment and also advise them as to construct their own units.

You said:

To be frank: red light therapy is the single best option I have found for actually suppressing--beating the beast back--to date.

Exactly my view also. I have been using red light treatment for rosacea since 1998 and although initially it was combined with an oral and topical drug there is no doubt in my mind that it was the reason that I got the condition under control.

You said:

I find it idiotic to sit here and talk about herbals or topicals or future-drugs when one could be helping one's self each day while waiting.

Could not agree more. Everyday I read all the hype on this Forum about new drugs supposedly in the pipeline for he future but nothing that we can use now. I know we must look ahead but sometimes I wonder if these wonder drugs will ever happen and perhaps they are more the figment of someone's imagination. We both know from our own experiences that red light can help rosacea and from others we have been in contact with there is plenty of anecdotal evidence out there to suggest that it definitely a treatment that needs further investigation. I wrote previously about a clinical trial on using red light (LED) for rosacea due to take place at Hammersmith Hospital in London under the supervision of Tony Chu - Consultant Dermatologist. The last I heard was that they were ready to start but when I spoke to Tony just before Christmas he told me that there had been a delay due to having to reapply for the Ethics Test again so there are still no dates yet for commencement. As soon as I get any news on this I will let you know.

Keep up the good work David and please update us on your progress.

Regards

Peter

[The_Rosacea_Champ]

Peter does have a very good after picture. However, before I decide how good his results are, I'd like to see a before picture as well.

Because as much result as LED red lights have given you, they have make my condition (especially flushing) that much worse.

No offence Petey.

[IowaDavid]

I would be very interested to hear what Dr. Chu's thoughts are on this modality, Peter. Please, keep us informed. :D

[BellaMermaid]

I hope my post does not come across negatively. My intention is to tell my story, not judge another person's positive reaction to LED therapy. And in telling this story, I hope that all will see that this is not a reflection of what may occur to them if they use LED, but just my individual reaction.

A while ago, I got caught up in the hype about LED therapy and from the stories of a few, I decided that it may be a good adjunctive therapy between IPL treatments. So I ordered an all red LED array from acnelamp.com at over $300.

I began using it twice a day for 15 minutes a time. From the start, I noticed that the small amount of heat emitted, would induce a flush that took quite a while to go down. I thought that this would settle, but it didn't. Everytime I used the lamp it would induce quite a serious flush. Because of the daily flushing, my condition worsened, so eventually after 3 months of diligent use, I stopped the lamp. Immediately after, my skin returned to it's normal healthy state with minimal flushing. I realised that the twice daily flushings were actually causing more damage to my skin, much like a repeated flush to other triggers would.

This is just my story and I'm glad that I tried it otherwise I'd always be left wondering. I think it is very unrealistic to expect 100% success with any sort of treatment, whether it be IPL/Laser, skincare, sunscreen, medications etc. What works magically for one could spell disaster for another.

If LED works for you then more power to you, but for me, the medications, topicals and treatments mentioned by Geoffrey recently (which are already on the shelves), and those which will be available to us very soon, have benefitted me enormously and have had a major positive impact on my rosacea.

Good luck to those who decide to try LED therapy though. Unfortunately for me, it set me back for a short time and burnt a hole in my pocket.

[IowaDavid]

Yeah--I had that same sort of reaction as well when I was using the Acnelamp all-red unit. I was more sensitive then, but it still discouraged me from using it more frequently. I'm not sure why the flushing occurred--part of it may have been the angle I was at, trying to stay within the best light-distribution zone of the LED heads (I used to flush when I was sitting or bending in an odd position). I honestly don't know. And, for god's sake, if something's working for you--use it. This disease is so troublesome because we all react differently to different therapies or triggers.

Basically, I'll say this: as I posted above, I'm using 876 red LEDs on my array right now. It's FAR brighter than my original Acnelamp model I got (72 total red LEDs--and I'm not sure what their output is). I would venture to guess that if red light were the cause of my initial flushing/hesitation, then I would have hit a very hard wall by now. Also, I wouldn't have pursued this modality with as much interest as I have.

But, yes, as you said, mermaid--there is no panacea for this disease.
I find it difficult to see why red light @ 660nm would be harmful for rosacea (at a low-level of ujoules/cm2), but as we don't have any good research right now to explain why this modality works for some with rosacea, we won't have any good answers--just anecdotal evidence.

One positive benefit that I have seen that's non-rosacea related is the smoothing of those fine lines one gets on the face in their mid to late twenties--I'm guessing it has to do with boosting collagen in the facial skin, but I'm not sure. Just something I've noticed.

David

[Bradley]

I concur with Mermaid, I have had a very negative experience with this form of treatment. I purchased a Dermalux unit for £150+ which is very very expensive; and used it twice a day, 5 times a week, for about 3-4months.

My reason for starting this treatment was to clear up my facial acne problems. Back then I had no problems with rosacea/cheek redness. Unfortunately I had to stop using the unit since I realised it had created some form of imprinted redness on my cheeks (aka butterfly effect) which I have never had before.

Oh if only I could go back in time!!!

[Peter]

The name is Peter and I've only ever been called "Petey" by one person - Hello Amanda !

I do not use LED light, so suggest you follow my posts more closely otherwise you will give out the wrong information.

Your post gives no information at all so I have doubts over its authenticity and its intended purpose.

Perhaps you would like to tell us about the LED red lights you have used, i.e the make, where you got them from, the cost, how long you used them and your actual regime ? I am sure we would all be interested in seeing the details.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon, Amanda.

PETER

[Peter]

Maria

I do not find your post negative as such but I do find it confusing because you have contradicted something you previously said about red light on the ESFB thread last summer. Fortunately I always keep messages on red light as they are useful to refer back to. This is what you said.

bellamermaid
Newbie

Posts: 23

I love YaBB 1 Gold!

Re: Acne Lamps
« Reply #15 on: August 7th, 2005, 7:10am »

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Hi David and all,

I too recently purchased the all red LED lamp, 3 heads and I use it in between IPL treatments. I can't be sure yet of its effectiveness, but I swear that it really calms my skin down.

Peter and Kristen are the real experts and the fact that so many have had success is very encouraging.

Of course when you take a multi pronged approach which is essential with rosacea, there is that grey area of what is helping and how much.

I truly think that they are a great adjunctive therapy for us with rosacea.

David, you posted a really great email there about your experience and I hope you continue with great success. I've been following your wonderful journey and it is truly appreciated that you share this with us.

Mermaid
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps everything went pear shaped after you wrote this but I am a little surprised that you didn't report back at the time rather than now especially after stating that you used it for three months and your message above gives no hint of problems. Also worth remembering that there are many type of lamps being marketed and they can all give different results plus the distance your face is from the unit and the exposure time can all play a part together with whether or not you choose to cleanse before use . Don't take offence but you were rather unwise to plonk yourself in front of your unit twice a day for a total of 30 minutes and for 3 months :( !!!!!!!. That is far too much for starters and I always advise people to start up slowly for a minute a day with their face about 8 - 10" away and then slowly build up their exposure time to a maximum of 15 minutes daily and move nearer to the unit but no more than 6". 30 minutes is far to long to commence with and for 3 months I am not surprised you might have had a problem but then that's not what you said in your ESFB message ? If you were using it between IPL's and reporting benefits then it must have gone wrong later ? Seems odd to me but perhaps I have got your story confused here ?

The lamp I use is infra-red tubes - all red and not LED plus I have only ever used it for one session of 15 minutes a day. My lamp is more likely to cause a problem for those sensitive to fluorescent light but even so I know Dermalux have only come across two people to date who after following the instructions properly have reported back a degree of sensitivity. The Dermalux LED is far more gentle and personally I have never heard of anyone who has followed the instructions properly having a problem. Think there is a moral in that story somewhere :)

By the way as the lamp supposedly did not work for you did you ask the manufacturers for a refund as some will if you mention you tried it for acne. Not that I am suggesting you tell lies of course ! The other option is to try and sell it on rather than let it gather dust in your wardrobe

I seem to remember you writing to me once saying you had a friend who was using a lamp with success which prompted you to give it a try. Is she still using it and do you have details of her lamp and the regime ?

I could not agree with you more that we can never expect 100% success with any form of treatment because at the end of the day we can all be different but we should never be put off trying something new if we feel it could help us. If you read any of my posts on red light and advice I have given others then you will see I have never given guarantees of success or made any false promises but merely encouraged people to give it a try if they have a hunch it might work. That is what I did in 1998.

Hopefully David's posts and success with his red LED plus my history will encourage others to try this therapy. The key to this form of treatment for rosacea is the Clinical trial which I have already mentioned and perhaps a result good or bad will emerge later this year. All I know is that Tony Chu would not go to the expense and time involved in carrying out a formal clinical trial unless he felt the treatment really warranted investigation. Watch this space I suppose.

Thanks

Peter

[Peter]

Hello Bradley

The Dermalux Acne lamp usually retails around £200 and I recently changed mine for the newer 6 tube version and paid the same for one converted to all red. Depends how you look at it but if it is effective then the cost of this can work out far cheaper than topicals, other drugs or laser treatments over the course of a year.

Difficult for me to comment as you were using it for an acne problem rather than rosacea but I know red / blue was very effective for around 70% of acne sufferers but for the others it didn't help for no apparent reason. The Red / Blue unit helped my rosacea but changing to all red seemed more effective so that's the way it has remained.

It could be the blue light was aggravating your rosacea and as I have commented to Maria's recent post 30 minutes daily could have been too much ? Did you slowly build up your tolerance to the light ? Perhaps you are sensitive to fluorescent light as I have mentioned previously and LED could be a better option.

If you still have the lamp and can afford to experiment why not convert to all red and see if that helps. Have a chat with Dermalux and see what they think and if you decide to go ahead I will talk you through the initial month of use.

Regards

Peter

[BellaMermaid]

Maria

I do not find your post negative as such but I do find it confusing because you have contradicted something you previously said about red light on the ESFB thread last summer. Fortunately I always keep messages on red light as they are useful to refer back to. This is what you said.

bellamermaid
Newbie

Posts: 23

I love YaBB 1 Gold!

Re: Acne Lamps
« Reply #15 on: August 7th, 2005, 7:10am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi David and all,

I too recently purchased the all red LED lamp, 3 heads and I use it in between IPL treatments. I can't be sure yet of its effectiveness, but I swear that it really calms my skin down.

Peter and Kristen are the real experts and the fact that so many have had success is very encouraging.

Of course when you take a multi pronged approach which is essential with rosacea, there is that grey area of what is helping and how much.

I truly think that they are a great adjunctive therapy for us with rosacea.

David, you posted a really great email there about your experience and I hope you continue with great success. I've been following your wonderful journey and it is truly appreciated that you share this with us.

Mermaid
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps everything went pear shaped after you wrote this but I am a little surprised that you didn't report back at the time rather than now especially after stating that you used it for three months and your message above gives no hint of problems. Also worth remembering that there are many type of lamps being marketed and they can all give different results plus the distance your face is from the unit and the exposure time can all play a part together with whether or not you choose to cleanse before use . Don't take offence but you were rather unwise to plonk yourself in front of your unit twice a day for a total of 30 minutes and for 3 months :( !!!!!!!. That is far too much for starters and I always advise people to start up slowly for a minute a day with their face about 8 - 10" away and then slowly build up their exposure time to a maximum of 15 minutes daily and move nearer to the unit but no more than 6". 30 minutes is far to long to commence with and for 3 months I am not surprised you might have had a problem but then that's not what you said in your ESFB message ? If you were using it between IPL's and reporting benefits then it must have gone wrong later ? Seems odd to me but perhaps I have got your story confused here ?

The lamp I use is infra-red tubes - all red and not LED plus I have only ever used it for one session of 15 minutes a day. My lamp is more likely to cause a problem for those sensitive to fluorescent light but even so I know Dermalux have only come across two people to date who after following the instructions properly have reported back a degree of sensitivity. The Dermalux LED is far more gentle and personally I have never heard of anyone who has followed the instructions properly having a problem. Think there is a moral in that story somewhere :)

By the way as the lamp supposedly did not work for you did you ask the manufacturers for a refund as some will if you mention you tried it for acne. Not that I am suggesting you tell lies of course ! The other option is to try and sell it on rather than let it gather dust in your wardrobe

I seem to remember you writing to me once saying you had a friend who was using a lamp with success which prompted you to give it a try. Is she still using it and do you have details of her lamp and the regime ?

I could not agree with you more that we can never expect 100% success with any form of treatment because at the end of the day we can all be different but we should never be put off trying something new if we feel it could help us. If you read any of my posts on red light and advice I have given others then you will see I have never given guarantees of success or made any false promises but merely encouraged people to give it a try if they have a hunch it might work. That is what I did in 1998.

Hopefully David's posts and success with his red LED plus my history will encourage others to try this therapy. The key to this form of treatment for rosacea is the Clinical trial which I have already mentioned and perhaps a result good or bad will emerge later this year. All I know is that Tony Chu would not go to the expense and time involved in carrying out a formal clinical trial unless he felt the treatment really warranted investigation. Watch this space I suppose.

Thanks

Peter

Peter,

No need to be confused. Yes it did all go horribly pear shaped as you put it. I think initially it was a matter of mind over matter as I wanted it to desperately work. Then when I came back to earth, I realised that my condition was actually worsening thanks to the lamp. Why didn't I report back to you? Well why should I? I didn't realise that this was a pre requisite when something doesn't work for someone. It didn't work and so be it. If I had a dollar for every person who initially feels that something is helping them only to post later that it is doing the opposite, well I could buy my own IPL machine. It is sad that you didn't have more insight to understand that these things happen sometimes.

I consulted many people on the way to correctly use the lamp and I was told by the manufacturer and others using it, that 15 minutes twice a day was the norm. To my understanding you don't use the LED lamp do you so please don't lecture me.

No I did not ask the manufacturer for a refund. Thank you for bringing this up because now that you mention it, if anybody would like to buy a barely used all red, LED lamp which you can have a look at at www.acnelamp.com, then please PM me and make me an offer that I can't refuse.

To answer yet another one of your questions, I have no idea whether that particular friend is still using the lamp or whether it is successful for her.

Now if the interrogation is over, I'd personally like to move on and help others. Not sure what your gripe is but many of the questions you asked, did not require me to explain myself to you. If you do have a gripe kindly PM me, but don't give me the third degree on this forum. We've already had enough of certain individuals wanting to stir the pot.

Like I said if red light therapy works for you then more power to you. We hear you ok :roll:

[The_Rosacea_Champ]

The name is Peter and I've only ever been called "Petey" by one person - Hello Amanda !

I do not use LED light, so suggest you follow my posts more closely otherwise you will give out the wrong information.

Your post gives no information at all so I have doubts over its authenticity and its intended purpose.

Perhaps you would like to tell us about the LED red lights you have used, i.e the make, where you got them from, the cost, how long you used them and your actual regime ? I am sure we would all be interested in seeing the details.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon, Amanda.

PETER

I don't know who Amanda is and I'm sorry if I offended you by calling you Petey. My brothers name is Peter and we always call him Petey. He's never complained once.

Anyways, if you take a look at my initial post regarding this treatment option, I was not offensive at all. I did not attack you, I only questioned it's efficiency for treating rosacea. You need to calm down. I can tell already that you have an anger problem, and you should seek help.

To answer your question, the following is a link to the machine that I purchased. http://www.homephototherapy.com/acne/acne-default.htm May not have been the one you used or are selling, but it just didn't do anything for me.

Sorry PetER.

The Champ.

P.S. Please grow up. I will not respond to any of your insults again, because you really arn't worth the effort.

[Bradley]

Isn't nice to know that fellow rosaceans get on with each other so well...with such good teamwork I'm pretty sure we will have a cure in no time :lol:

It could be the blue light was aggravating your rosacea and as I have commented to Maria's recent post 30 minutes daily could have been too much ?

Peter, prior to using the Dermalux unit I never had rosacea so it was quite clear to me that the Dermalux play some part in causing the birth of this problem to some degree or another.

[drnase]

Isn't nice to know that fellow rosaceans get on with each other so well...with such good teamwork I'm pretty sure we will have a cure in no time :lol:

It could be the blue light was aggravating your rosacea and as I have commented to Maria's recent post 30 minutes daily could have been too much ?

Peter, prior to using the Dermalux unit I never had rosacea so it was quite clear to me that the Dermalux play some part in causing the birth of this problem to some degree or another.


It would be great to have something like this for all rosacea patients to use with safety and in their own home. There is definitely an anti-inflammatory component to some of the components in this system. There is also a component that does cause flushing to worsen in rosacea sufferers like Bradley, Mermaid and others.

Maybe Iowa David, Peter could get together with Dr. Chu or a couple University engineers to map out and construct a very specific light source for rosacea. I think that would be a great project and may lay down some real starting points so that people get helped and lessen the chance of any setbacks.

We have at least 7 verified rosacea treatments targetted for late 2006, so all of this is good news.

My sincere concerns before things went south were that minor changes in these systems can completely change the effect on the skin. For example, in the Diabetes center at IU, we have multiple light systems like these that are medical grade:

1. The grow skin back in wounds that down to the fat pads.
2. Other light systems are antibacterial, much like several of the versions that Dr. Chu has tested, so I do have fairly extensive knowledge of these light systems. Irradiation with this light knocks out bacteria and other microbe strains with great efficacy.
3. They have antiinflammatory light systems that knock down inflammation in the skin ......... but these all cause flushing because most light systems that cause anti-inflammation have to increase blood flow to release the neutrophils and cell adhesion molecule that have set up camp and the area being treated needs oxygen and nutrients. So the question for rosacea sufferers is do we know enough yet about these light systems and most importantly, who do we tell to fight through a temporary flushing response and hope they dont get worse. I think these are sensible questions. Questions that I have considerable background in the medical arena. I would like to see more studies by Dr. Chu and also be light system engineers because I do believe they can design something that may be quite beneficial for rosacea sufferers down the line.

I certainly hope this comes across as intended.

[Peter]

Hello Bradley

Well I was trying to add helpful information to a red light therapy thread but I cannot comment on some of the others.

Difficult for me to comment on your experience with the blue / red Dermalux Acne lamp other than what I said previously. I have not heard of it causing rosacea with any acne patients but it could be possible and we all know there is always the exception to the rule especially where rosacea is concerned. I had no problem with red / blue for the few months I used it but early in 1999 I changed to all red and have stayed there ever since. The offer I made previously still stands but if you want I will contact Adrian Warburton at Dermalux myself and mention your case to see what comments he may have.

To do this I will probably need your full name and date you purchased the lamp from them. I know they are always interested in feedback from people using the lamp so did you make any comments at the time ?

Thanks

Peter

[Peter]

Hello Maria

Please don't get your knickers in a twist as I was certainly not trying to interrogate you, just asking some basic questions. Some of your reply doesn't make sense to me but I can guess what you could be suggesting and we will not go down that route, I think. There were some inconsistencies in your post compared with your original report on ESFB so I just wanted to get the facts right as others who could be interested in red light therapy might get the wrong impression from your experience. Sure, we can all sometimes imagine that a treatment could be helping after a short time when it really is not, especially if using more than one method. I usually warn people to wait at least 2 - 3 months before deciding if something is working because when posting on a Forum, it is not fair on others if people over-react with too much hype too early.

No, I do not use LED, as I have pointed out. The LED I know about is manufactured by Dermalux and it is a very gentle light which as I mentioned I am not aware of anybody with rosacea having a reaction to. One person with severe vascular rosacea and extremely sensitive skin I know has been using it for several weeks but took the sensible approach of starting up with just a few minutes daily on just one area of their face. So far so good with no reaction but far too early to gauge yet whether it will help their rosacea. The lamp you decided to use for 30 minutes a day I know nothing about so it could be it was unsuitable for your skin and was primarily designed to treat acne.

I didn't say I expected you to report back to me personally. Why the hell should I if was never involved in the original thread, but it would have been helpful for the others concerned to hear your results at the time as we all like to share our experiences, good or bad. Certainly, if you had asked for my advice I would have given it to you, as I have done for others. I wonder if your friend had the same bad result you did but then as you don't care why should I ?

To be honest, I thought the tone of your reply was not really called for, but "it takes all sorts" as we say. Red light for whatever reasons did not work for you but it helped me, David and others who have given it a go. Yes, I am sure like you there are other people it hasn't helped, but that is no different to any other rosacea treatment. I have always been very honest with my posts on this subject and the advice I give to anybody who asks for it. I will continue to follow this approach and if you don't like my style, then please don't get involved if it upsets you so much.

Regards

Peter

[Peter]

Hello Jonathan Gamache - The Rosacea Champ or so called.

Yes, it does get confusing with so many names. It would be much easier if people used their own names so we really knew who we were talking to. (You know who Amanda is.)

I will correct myself and state that only two people have called me Petey in the past and you were one of them.

Sorry if my post and apparent anger upsets you. You have a history of upsetting people though, hence you were banned and many of the threads you got involved in were deleted. This is probably just as well because some of your messages were obscene, especially the jokey one about the UK terrorist bombing, which killed 52 people and wounded more than 700 others. I still have a record of it, if you forgot what you wrote. The implications of this were serious and it caused considerable bad feeling amongst many of us at the time.

I am not angry, just irked by answering mails like yours which are specifically put up to devalue the use of red light for rosacea. The lamp you have quoted in your last message and the link is NOT the one you told me you used in your 6th August post on this Forum as you then inferred it was the Dermalux All Red and you wrote that you "did not notice any positive results in my flushing". No bad results, just no positive results.

Actually I have never said that red light will specifically help the flushing component of rosacea but it may well do when used in conjunction with another treatment e.g. Clonidine. The main effect is probably it's anti-inflammatory action similar to that of an antibiotic and we all know that an antibiotic does not help with flushing.

Looks like you are getting your story a little mixed up but should I be surprised ?

To put the record straight once and for all I do not sell any lamps and have no involvement with any company financally. I would not dream of making any money out of a rosacea sufferer and I have actually funded the cost of some lamps myself to help out two individuals who had severe rosacea.


Peter

[adyus]

Please, let's end this discussion now. I will lock this topic for now.

Best wishes,

Adrian