The eyedrop dilemma

[YankeesRtheBest]

1.) I was on restasis for about 15 or 20 months every day, twice a day. I stopped them about 2 weeks ago to see how my eyes would respond and they're actually less irritated, it's very weird because they can be more dry at times since I'm not using the restasis to stimulate my tear production, but my eyes get irritated when I use them, it's very hard to describe.
2.) Another strange thing is that all preservative and preservative free eyedrops over the counter irritate me, it's terrible. The only one that I can tolerate is Similason healthy relief. They only sell the one with a preservative in stores. Is this harmful to use long-term? I found preservative free similason single eyedrop viles at amazon, but they never ship on time and it can get expensive because it's just 20 viles, I use them up in a matter of days because my severe dryness. I think it is very unfair that people with severe dry eye have to continually purchase these things, if acne is covered by insurance companies, then this should be in my opinion. I live in pain every day. Well sorry to rant. Thanks for reading. -Chris

[irishgenes]

Sorry you have so much trouble with dry eyes, Chris. I never heard of that eye drop Similason before, but Googled it and found it has these ingredients: Belladonna (Atropa belladonna) D6
Euphrasia officinalis D6
Mercurius sublimatus corrosivus (Hydrargyrum bichloratum) D6

Then on botanical.com, I found this about belladonna:
"Belladonna is a most valuable plant in the treatment of eye diseases, Atropine, obtained during extraction, being its most important constituent on account of its power of dilating the pupil. Atropine will have this effect in whatever way used, whether internally, or injected under the skin, but when dropped into the eye, a much smaller quantity suffices, the tiny discs oculists using for this purpose, before testing their patient's sight for glasses, being made of gelatine with 1/50000 grain of Atropine in each, the entire disk only weighing 1/50 grain. Scarcely any operation on the eye can safely be performed without the aid of this valuable drug. It is a strong poison, the amount given internally being very minute, 1/200 to 1/100 grain. As an antidote to Opium, Atropine may be injected subcutaneously, and it has also been used in poisoning by Calabar bean and in Chloroform poisoning. It has no action on the voluntary muscles, but the nerve endings in involuntary muscles are paralysed by large doses, the paralysis finally affecting the central nervous system, causing excitement and delirium."

I haven't even checked out the other ingredients, but this is not something I would personally want to use long term, even though, being a homeopathic remedy, it is no doubt diluted a whole lot in the Similason eye drops.

[celticgirlie]

Hi Chris,

I was on Restasis for 6 months and also found that in the end it was irritating my eyes so I know what you mean.

I was at one point trying Similisan drops and one optometrist told me that Belladonna was not good for the eye.

If I use any drops (usually Refresh tears or Systane or Refresh Endura) too much they just irritate me. That same opt. said I should being using drops at least once an hour but I just can't do it.

Ocusoft eyelid scrubs also started irritating me. I can only use them once in a while.

I think because it is winter here in Southern California and more humid my dry eyes are happier for the moment. The moister the air, the better.

Do you use a humidifier? What about supplements? Sorry I'm not much help. Just wanted you to know I've had similar problems.

[fut]

Have you ever tried a humidifier for your room? This can make sure your room isn't too dry.

[Andy]

Have any of you tried taking an oil supplement, such as Barlean's Omega Twin Oil for your occular problems? Seems to have helped many.

[celticgirlie]

I seem to flush more with ester C, vitamin C and oil supplements but thank you!!!

[YankeesRtheBest]

Hey everybody, thanks for the info, I should try a humidifier soon thanks. I went on supplements and didn't know if they were aggravating my cystic acne, it seemed like they were so I stopped taking them and have been trying to control my bad breakouts first.
Celticgirlie-So your doctor said similason was bad for the eyes? Even the preservative free? I don't know what to do then, cause everything else irritates me. I mean everyone says something different, it's hard to determine what is right long-term. Eyescrubs irritate me too, we're in the same boat.
Irishgenes-You metioned patonol, is this bad to use for a long period of time? I mean that has a preservative right? My doctor gave me Alrex and said to use it if I need it. I looked it up and it said steriod eyedrops like alrex and lotemax can be used safely for long periods of time and will not cause problems like cataracts or glaucoma, or however you spell it. I just don't know what to believe, I want to trust doctors, but talking on here to everybody makes me lose my faith in them. I don't know, I'm beside myself. -Chris

[celticgirlie]

All I can say is one thing at a time. Too often I can't resist trying more than one thing at once.

My skin tends to break out with oil supplements.

I know what you mean about differing opinions. I was surprised when the opt. said that about Similisan but, to be honest, it wasn't helping my eyes. Another opt. said that a potato in the microwave and then on my eyes (presumably with a cloth around it) is by far the best answer to helping oil production in the eye. I never tried that because I don't want to cause my face to flare. What does your opt. say about Similisan? By the way, I didn't ask about preservative-free plus I think there are a few different Similisan products.

Also, are you having any success with topical medications on your cystic acne?

[YankeesRtheBest]

hey celticgirlie, I like Similason, I feel they help me, but I wasn't sure if you meant that it can actually be HARMFUL to me even if it seems like it's benefiting me, is that what you meant? I hope not, cause it's all I have at the moment. I even stopped my doxycycline because I thought it was somehow aggravating my acne, or at least not helping it. So I'm on a weeks worth of amoxicillan to calm the cystic acne, penicillan works very well for me. Topical acne products like benzaclin, which I'm currently using, help me, but I only use it on my forehead and temples because I don't want to aggravate the rosacea on my cheeks. I know I'm taking a risk in spreading my rosacea, but what else can I do, I have huge cysts popping out of my head. I have to do what I can. I ordered trioxil which I'm still waiting for in the mail, we'll see what happens with that. I'll try that potatoe thing you were talking about, sounds interesting. I also plan on trying accutane a few months from now after I'm done w/my laser treatments, just 10 mg a week or something to help specifically with my eyes. I'm telling ya, when I was on it it dried the hell out my eyes, but for the first week I was on it my eyes were the whitest they've been in over 7 years (before I developed ocular rosacea, 13 years old). There has to be a correct dose that just helps them and doesn't dry them out, for me it must be extremely low. -Chris

[celticgirlie]

Hi Chris,

Dr. Nase mentions Similisan #1 on pg. 265 of his book. He mentions that it is preservative-free. I'm not sure if this is the one you are using... Do you have his book? If this is the one you are using then I would feel completely safe about it.

Are you in the middle of laser treatments with all this going on?

Also, have you tried sulphur products?

[YankeesRtheBest]

Yes I have the book, Dr. Nase must be talking about the preservative free viles that I can only find on amazon. They only sell the bottle in stores.
I have been using sulfur products too yes, in the morning. I've been on everything in the book. I hope that troxil works, i'll keep everyone posted, it still hasn't arrived, sometimes things take so long, it's ridiculius. Thanks again. -Chris

[celticgirlie]

Well good luck and hang in there!

[irishgenes]

Apparently Similasan does make more than one formula, and the #1 that Dr. Nase recommends has eyebright, honey bee, and cevadillis, according to his book. No belladonna. Yet the ingredients he mentions are not the ones listed on the #1 label, so something is off. Does the drop you use have belladonna or eyebright, honey bee, and cevadillis?
http://www.benuts.com/store/catalog.asp?item=217

As I understand homeopathic medicine, they dilute something so much that it is practically non-existent. As you can see from the above link, the active ingredient is only 0.000002%. This is not like an herbal remedy.

From this website: http://www.tfn.net/HealthGazette/homeop.html
"The basic tenet of homeopathy is that disease can be cured by giving the patient minute amounts of a substance that can induce similar symptoms to the actual disease itself. This was felt to restore the patient's vital force. Dr. Hahnemann gave volunteers numerous different compounds and recorded the symptoms that these compounds caused in great detail. He then recorded this information in a book called 'Organon of Medicine' which is still used today to guide the homeopathic doctor in which treatment to use. This book has been used for years to treat numerous different ailments. The very compound that was used to cause a particular condition was used in extremely small doses to treat patients who presented with similar symptoms. These drugs were diluted so many times they actually would not contain any molecules of the actual substance that was initially diluted. Interestingly, Dr. Hahnemann claimed the potency actually increases as the drug becomes more and more dilute. The solution used to dilute the drug could be either water, alcohol or a combination of both. The process of repetitively diluting a drug is call potentiation. Each time a dilution takes place, the solution is vigorously shaken in order to evenly distribute the molecules in the solution. Homeopathic physicians will freely admit that their most potent medications do not contain any molecules of the initial drug that was diluted. The mechanism of action of this medicine has never been explained scientifically. There has been some speculation that the diluent supposedly remembers, or in some way fingerprints, the initial drug that was diluted."

Frankly, I think homeopathic remedies act as a placebo. That article says, "The problem with homeopathy is that it is totally unscientific and it runs counter to the basic laws of chemistry, physics and common sense." I have to agree. Maybe the "inactive ingredients" do something to help your eyes, though.

[YankeesRtheBest]

Hey irishgenes & others. I have the Similasan preservative free viles and the bottle with a preservative.
The viles have active ingredients Belladona (redness, dryness), Euphrasia (redness, inflammation), Mercurius sublimatus (dryness). It also says wuth a little star that the belladona *contains 0.000002% alkaloids calculated as hyoscyamine. I don't know what this means. DO YOU THINK BELLADONNA IS HARMFUL?? Inactive ingredients: sodium chloride, purified water

The bottle which is Similasan Eye Drops # 1 has the same active ingredients as the viles, but has inactive ingredients: Borate buffer, sodium nitrate, & silver sulphate (as preservative) I don't know if this preservative is harmful long term so I'v been using the viles.

**I am very confused and have never seen the Similasan with eyebright, honeybee, and cevadillis. Can anyone enlighten me??** Thanks. -Chris

[IowaDavid]

My skin tends to break out with oil supplements.



I can understand the hesitation to try new supplements when one is, almost inevitably with this disease, constantly changing treatment modalities.

However, I would _strongly_ urge you to give pharmaceutical grade evening primrose oil supplementation a try. It's a fatty acid like you'd consume in any number of foods (so it really should have no action that would make you break out), but, it contains a high load of gamma linolenic acid and this has a peculiar action on ocular inflammation. By reducing ocular inflammation, it allows the meibomian glands to secrete oil properly and stabilize the tearfilm layer so the water there won't evaporate and cause dry eye. You need to go heavy on the supplementation for the first couple of months, like, ~300g GLA (not EPO)/day.

This has been a real godsend to me. I've tried several different antibiotics and it was only after I started consistently using GLA (EPO) supplementation that my eyes settled down. I was literally using severe dry-eye drop applications 20+ times a day.

Just make sure you don't skimp on this one--get a good brand.

Good luck.

David

[irishgenes]

Chris, I do think belladonna in the eye is harmful over the long term. In a homeopathic remedy, it is diluted so much that it probably won't do you harm. However, neither do I think it is really helping you. I think there must be an error in Dr. Nase's book. He seems to be recommending an herbal eye drop, but he has confused it with the Similasan #1.

As for sodium nitrate, it is listed as a harmful eye irritant.
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s4442.htm
Silver sulphate is also listed as a harmful irritant which can even cause permanent blue-gray discoloration of the eye.
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s2378.htm
In the case of preservatives, the chemicals in homeopathic remedies are not diluted down to almost nothing, but are used in standard cosmetic/drug quantities.

I agree with IowaDavid that evening primrose oil (internally) twice a day is very good for dry eye. It has helped me a lot. However, you may already be taking it.

[NikkiLou]

Can I just ask what strength evening primrose you take?

Thanks