Rosacea Forum

[Kelli]

"Wow you people have been busy over night..

Please for the benefit of this forum, take this conversation to email, another forum, or over the phone.

Regards,
RedHotCanuck
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Accutane (10mg/day) - Started July 20th, 05. Also had 3 IPL."

This is BS. This is not harming the cause of rosacea. This is hindering it. If we can't question the people who are supposedly giving life altering advice to rosaceans, then what's the point? If you don't question everything, you're a gullible moron and I have some Amway to sell to you.

The more and more that these types of conversations get stopped mid-stream, the more and more I find this forum a waste of time. Good info in some cases, but when you get to the meat of the person supposedly holding many of our lives in his talented research hands and we can't say that we don't believe what he's saying, you're basically telling every rosacean to listen to Dr. Nase, and if you don't, then good riddance and good luck figuring out on your own how to not commit suicide.

[drnase]

"Wow you people have been busy over night..

Please for the benefit of this forum, take this conversation to email, another forum, or over the phone.

Regards,
RedHotCanuck
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accutane (10mg/day) - Started July 20th, 05. Also had 3 IPL."

This is BS. This is not harming the cause of rosacea. This is hindering it. If we can't question the people who are supposedly giving life altering advice to rosaceans, then what's the point? If you don't question everything, you're a gullible moron and I have some Amway to sell to you.

The more and more that these types of conversations get stopped mid-stream, the more and more I find this forum a waste of time. Good info in some cases, but when you get to the meat of the person supposedly holding many of our lives in his talented research hands and we can't say that we don't believe what he's saying, you're basically telling every rosacean to listen to Dr. Nase, and if you don't, then good riddance and good luck figuring out on your own how to not commit suicide.



Kelli. Please disregard all helpful information I ever posted to you on accutane on both groups in public and in private. Also, we should indeed have everyone scan in their entire private lives for everyone to view, including their family members. We should also start with real names instead of user names -- that would immediately bring down the house. I have never talked about disagreeing with me as an immortal sin, but you and a few others want to keep on making me out to be this sort of person. That is never and has never been me. What I (and no one else appreciates) is having to take flack when you are having a bad day. Thats not fair and its not constructive -- but I guess thats life.

[Kelli]

Excuse me DR. Nase, but I wasn't referring to you in my general bitch - I was referring to the moderating committee. So, if you are one of them, then, yes, I'm directing my irritation towards you. Other than that, you put yourself as a ROSACEA expert, so if you don't want people to discuss your advice, then don't post it.

Everything that has your name in it isn't necessarily about YOU. It may be about your advice, but it's not always about you.

[drnase]

Excuse me DR. Nase, but I wasn't referring to you in my general bitch - I was referring to the moderating committee. So, if you are one of them, then, yes, I'm directing my irritation towards you. Other than that, you put yourself as a ROSACEA expert, so if you don't want people to discuss your advice, then don't post it.

Everything that has your name in it isn't necessarily about YOU. It may be about your advice, but it's not always about you.


I am not a moderator Kelli. All I do is give out information and everyone here is old enough to take this information and follow up with their physicians. What gets me is that you want to book mark a hate site that actually details my son and his life during my divorce! Would you have no problem if the roles were reversed -- you can seriously tell me that you would think it was fair to dive into your son's life?

[Kelli]

Did I say I bookmarked a hate site? No... go back and reread. I never would advocate discussing one's family life. That is none ofmy business, nor of anyone else's, and personally think it's horrid that it was dragged into all of this.

What I SAID was that I bookmarked the article about the trial that you have been discussing for the past few months. I don't believe it said anything about your son, ust about your illness and that you wouldn't turn over your medical records. Frankly, can't say I blame you for that, either. I don't want people pouring through my medical history, either, specifically when it's of no concequence to what's going on.

[Bob Bear]

Kelli,

I dont think Red was saying 'dont talk about this', he just means dont talk about it here. Thats enough imo. We need a forum that deals only with rosacea, no politics.

Im quite sure that if it stays inline, then we can discuss these matters on the offtopic section in ESFB. But to be honest, all the info is now available - what questions are there left to ask?

[Kelli]

Hi Bob,

I have no problem with discussing rosacea. That's what I'm doing, actually. No not talking about what spot I have on my face, but discussing the person who is supposed to be the leading most authority on rosacea. I don't see why we can't discuss credentials (which have been discussed before, but only if they were in a positive light) of everyone here. I was not saying that the debunking site needs to be there, or that the lawsuit needed to be there. That's all a moot point.

I was saying that I had an article about the lawsuit that I found interesting from a consumer point of view. We are all consumers, are we not? Dr. Nase is offering us advice, and at a cost, if we want to have it in print. Would you not want to question the credentials of a person whom you are buying their book or their advice? When you go to a new Dr., do you not question their experience? Why isn't that the same here? You're actually talking face-to-face with your Dr. All we can go by here is what is said by ONE person. I would think we'd all be more cautious about believing people on a message board, especially when it's regarding medical adivce!

[RedHotCanuck]

I'm going to give it a bit of thought, but I think I'm done babysitting this forum. I've tried to keep things civil, but it just keeps on coming back.

There will probably be room for a new moderator in a day or so.

[timmay28]

Dr. Nase with all due respect you really shouldn't let these armpits of society get to you on the internet and dictate where to post your incredibly helpful insights. There's no need to constantly defend yourself, most of us are smart enough to know when someone is just crying for attention.

[scrumptious]

Kelli,

I dont think Red was saying 'dont talk about this', he just means dont talk about it here. Thats enough imo. We need a forum that deals only with rosacea, no politics.



Hi Bob,

I'm not that interested in continuing this so don't worry. However it does seem a little surprising that the court case was allowed to be discussed regularly whilst it was ongoing and yet now there is a result, it is not a legitimate topic for conversation.

Interesting.

[Bob Bear]

Redhotcannuck,

Mod duties getting you down? I think you just want to join in the on all fun mate :wink:


Kelli,

You are absolutely correct in one respect. As a consumer it is your right (if not your obligation) to question the products and services being pitched to you. And no more so than with health related products.

But with regard to Dr Nase's book - this is basically a compilation (and translation) or hundreds of medical articles and studies. It is not Geoffrey's opinions - it is all substantiated fact. I dont know if you have any experience of the scientific world, but this is how it works. You can just your opinion and it be science, you need evidence. Ofcourse, the is the issue of interpretation - you could argue that a scientist could 'bend' the facts to support his arguments, but I dont see that that is the case here. I too have read that book from cover to cover and it seems pretty unbias imo. Yes, he recommends IPL, but only because the facts and the evidence support its use.

But its never one size fits all. Just look at the case with accutane - Marc used that stuff and had bad results, you use it and get great results. This is why you have to discuss options with your doc, to figure out whats suitable.

If you want to angry at anyone, be angry at the doc who gave you IPL and put you in such pain. I dont think you can hold Geoffrey (or his book) accountable for that.

Again, Im not trying to fight anyones corner here. Just speaking up for what I believe is right. Im not going to debate the DB issue anymore, as I feel I have said all I can on this. But I dont see why Geoffrey (or his advice) are being held to such a high level of accountability - people need to take a little responsibilty for themselves. I mean, Geoffrey told me certain drug might help with my flushes, but my GP denied me a script - as a results I havent used that med. I dont hold Geoffrey's advice as the gospel truth - its just advice, intended to educate. If you, me, or anyone else doesnt like it, then they should ignore it, not use it as fodder for attack.

[Bob Bear]

Kelli,

I dont think Red was saying 'dont talk about this', he just means dont talk about it here. Thats enough imo. We need a forum that deals only with rosacea, no politics.



Hi Bob,

I'm not that interested in continuing this so don't worry. However it does seem a little surprising that the court case was allowed to be discussed regularly whilst it was ongoing and yet now there is a result, it is not a legitimate topic for conversation.

Interesting.

Very true Sally yes. Maybe the mods saw what happened last time and decided on a different approach?

I dont know, Im not a mod (Im not mod material, lol). But again, I would reiterate that both sides have made their cases, so what is left to ask?

Personally, I would prefer to just let this one die and focus on the future. Im quite sure that even if I did have questions to ask, I wouldnt get very conclusive answers.

[scrumptious]

It was dead until the usual accusation against me was posted this morning and i was forced to defend my name.... again! Perhaps if everyone was forced to comply with the rules as opposed to just some people, this particular community would be a more harmonious one.

[Brady Barrows]

Obviously, this is not a general rosacea question but about meta-forum discussions and is bordering on breaking our policy of not discussing the court case that everyone knows about anyway. Even the no holds barred
ESFB has finally ruled that a policy on such matters is prohibited there as well. Moderation is necessary otherwise look what happened to ESFB. If the moderators here aren't doing a good job growth will stop and posts will be few. There has to be some moderation which will no doubt upset some, but will no doubt be welcomed by the majority. It the reverse happens this forum will fold up.

[Kelli]

Bob - I flat out said that I never faulted Dr. Nase for his advice of getting IPL. PLEASE just read what I said. I've been a supporter of his, but everytime I try to just question one small thing, or even just say an article ABOUT him was interesting, I get thrown under the bus and told that I'm advocating his son being dragged into this mess. How F'ed up is that?! I have tried and tried to be reasonable, but this is just flat out stupid. I am so pissed right now I could just scream, because it's like people have these rose-colored glasses on! Rosaceans are hurting so badly, that they'll do anything, even ignore simple questioning, just so they can feel better about themselves.

It's really pathetic all around.

Y'all have fun. I don't want to mention any court cases, or question credentials, because that would just be out of line and un called for.

[Bob Bear]

"Bob - I flat out said that I never faulted Dr. Nase for his advice of getting IPL. PLEASE just read what I said. "

Sorry, my mistake. I read something on the other thread, and must have put 2 and 2 together. It seemed as though you were questioning the integrity of his book, based indirectly on current events. But if that isnt the case, please disregard any counterpoints.

Imo, no matter what is proved or disproved about Geoffrey, his book is a gift from god. Im sure you agree Kelli, that anyone bringing it into question over recent events is completely out of line (unless they have somekind of evidence to present).

"'ve been a supporter of his, but everytime I try to just question one small thing, or even just say an article ABOUT him was interesting, I get thrown under the bus and told that I'm advocating his son being dragged into this mess. How F'ed up is that?! "

I didnt think you'd exactly been thrown under a bus, lol (at least not by me). Again, Im not fighting Geoffrey's corner here, you can say anything you like about him for me, or ask any question. I think you just need to be aware that if you ask certain questions you might get that kind of reaction - its a highly sensitive subject and emotions will run high.

Geoffrey is obviously unhappy with the news paper article, so you can see why he might get the arse ache over it, no?

[Bob Bear]

Obviously, this is not a general rosacea question but about meta-forum discussions and is bordering on breaking our policy of not discussing the court case that everyone knows about anyway. Even the no holds barred
ESFB has finally ruled that a policy on such matters is prohibited there as well. Moderation is necessary otherwise look what happened to ESFB. If the moderators here aren't doing a good job growth will stop and posts will be few. There has to be some moderation which will no doubt upset some, but will no doubt be welcomed by the majority. It the reverse happens this forum will fold up.

Absolutely Brady, I think the moderation on this board is fantastic. I used to wonder why I hardly ever saw trolling on this board - it gets zapped to quickly!

[Bob Bear]

It was dead until the usual accusation against me was posted this morning and i was forced to defend my name.... again! Perhaps if everyone was forced to comply with the rules as opposed to just some people, this particular community would be a more harmonious one.

I couldnt agree more Sally. I know this may be a silly question, but just who are you implying is above the rules? From what I have seen (which is far from everything) anything a bit 'iffy' gets deleted pretty quickly around here. Infact, this is the first bit of tension Iv seen here for a good while.

[scrumptious]

It was dead until the usual accusation against me was posted this morning and i was forced to defend my name.... again! Perhaps if everyone was forced to comply with the rules as opposed to just some people, this particular community would be a more harmonious one.

I couldnt agree more Sally. I know this may be a silly question, but just who are you implying is above the rules? From what I have seen (which is far from everything) anything a bit 'iffy' gets deleted pretty quickly around here. Infact, this is the first bit of tension Iv seen here for a good while.

I didn't think to trawl the board to find this thread, assumed it had just been vapourised. So apologises for ignoring yr question.

Everything in this community is just perfect, no problems, no implications, ruddy fantastic.

[Warren]

In any forum with more than one person there will be disagreements. The moderators are not here as some kind of tyranny. Anyone can put their hand up and help constructively with being a moderator or changing any of the rules. The moderators should only be only be following the consensus among the rest of the forum members. The moderators are not here to babysit you all and the last thing we want to happen is to only show a single POV or to deprive you of information.

The moderators do not go through all posts deleting/editing ones en masse. We only intervene when we really have to, and the moderators as a whole are open to criticism.