overactive sympathetic nerve system

[foxguy]

hi dr nase,

given the role of an overactive sympathetic nervous system in making sufferers flush and blush, will any new topical inhibitors be effective at stopping blood vessel dialation in response to this stimuli?? will any of the talked about inhibitors have any impact on quick forming flushes and blushes??

thanks for any info

foxguy

[drnase]

This will be the toughest one to solve and they will be the last in the pipeline. Not the answer you wanted, but the truth.

The one topical that will help to some extent theoretically should be SansRosa's product because the alpha adrenoceptor stimulation should attenuate the neural dilator response to some extent. If it cuts the flush in half and reduces the duration by 60% plus then that would be a great help.

[Bob Bear]

Would i be correct in saying that these are the nerves blocked by botox? If so, sounds like another reason to get this transdermal botox treatments up and running.

Sorry I keep bringing this up, I must sounds like Im pushing it way to much! Its just I seem to be the only one on the planet to have tried this out, and the results are remarkable! Not a topical, but close enough for me.

[RachelRose]

For how long did you get relief from the neural burning by using Botox? It is temporary relief at a high price, no?

[drnase]

Would i be correct in saying that these are the nerves blocked by botox? If so, sounds like another reason to get this transdermal botox treatments up and running.

Sorry I keep bringing this up, I must sounds like Im pushing it way to much! Its just I seem to be the only one on the planet to have tried this out, and the results are remarkable! Not a topical, but close enough for me.


Bob, thats what they are trying to find out right now with nerve stains. The sympathatic nerve varicosities contain many substances and it is possible that we have more dilators (Acetylcholine which BOTOX blcoks and non adrenergic non cholingeric substances that BOTOX does not block) than constrictors (Norepinephrine) or different responses to the substances.

Right now the trial and error with the BOTOX is an experimental way to see only if acetylcholne is involved. Keep us posted because this is still unanswered but starting to be studied. The NRS has just funded two studies relating to this.

[Bob Bear]

I can see the restriction of botox - as you say it only blocks Ace. I was just shocked by its ability to do this! IPL made a big difference to my rosacea, but not to this extent. I ttok part in this trial purely to evaluate the treatment, and I dont plan to have it again via subcutaneous injection (too many risks). I can only imagine what I would be like to have a topic which could block more dilators to this degree.

But I guess that isnt as far fetched as it might sound!

[drnase]

Well bob they are juicing up the iontophoresis pads to insert each Botox molecule to a known distance. This will be a great breakthrough. I would not go the injection route unless it was a small area.

But when everything is said and done, if it works do it. The remission lasts longer and longer (unlike wrikles) because the blood vessels downregulate the acetylcholine recetors after several treatments because they think they are not needed anymore.

Keep us posted. You look very young!

[jane]

I have used both of these. First, A very well known and competent dermatologist involved in treating rosacea wanted to test botox on my flushing response. I approached him on this and he agreed. We injected less that 1cc into several areas in my left cheek subcutaneously in a square type pattern. This was done immediately following IPL and a yag treatment in the area. Unfhrtunately, the side effect was very upsetting. I had paralysis on my left ckeek for about 3 months. I could not smile on that side of my face and had to tell people that I had Bell's Palsy. It did decrease the flushing in the tiny areas that were injected. It also stopped the little twitches that I had been experiencing at that time due to the rosacea. I wish that there had been more spread in the a areas that were not flushing much. To this day, when I am not having a good flare, the pattern of the area injected is always a bit paler, and that side of my face is always a bit better.

I have also tried topical phenylephrine in both 1 and 2%. It seems for me to be able to vasoconstrict more of the superficial flushing, but does little for the deep flushing if I have a trigger like heat in place. You can actually see the skin around the flush zone become quite pale, even compared to the normal tissue. If I'm not having a really deep flush, it can take it away completely. It doesn't have the same effects for extended periods of time though. I do notice that my face looks more pale and is less reactive at the end of the day when I use it. It sort of halts the hyperactivity cycle a bit. However, the skin doesn't seem to keep that striking paleness that it takes on when first applied for very long. I would say maybe 20-45 min only, and it certainly won't stop the deep flushing. Anyway these are just my experiences, and I am hopeful about both. I would be interested to hear what Dr. Nase's response is to the way my skin behaves with these. If this is typical of other people that have tried this, and if the San Rosa product will target the deep flushing? I hope he sees this.

[JimJimson]

So in the meantime, while we wait for SansRosa and hope that it's effective, what's a good alternative for all us nervous flushers?

I use propranolol occasionally, but I sometimes flush straight through it. I got a sample of eucerin redness relief that my derm forced upon me (because she's a really caring derm, and is always excited to learn about new treatments), but I shudder at the thought of wearing a concealer... It's just too significant a blow to my pride.

Is there something we can use to help prevent nervous flushes, or at the least raise the bar a little so they don't happen so easy? I'm totally open to the answer "not really."

[drnase]

I have used both of these. First, A very well known and competent dermatologist involved in treating rosacea wanted to test botox on my flushing response. I approached him on this and he agreed. We injected less that 1cc into several areas in my left cheek subcutaneously in a square type pattern. This was done immediately following IPL and a yag treatment in the area. Unfhrtunately, the side effect was very upsetting. I had paralysis on my left ckeek for about 3 months. I could not smile on that side of my face and had to tell people that I had Bell's Palsy. It did decrease the flushing in the tiny areas that were injected. It also stopped the little twitches that I had been experiencing at that time due to the rosacea. I wish that there had been more spread in the a areas that were not flushing much. To this day, when I am not having a good flare, the pattern of the area injected is always a bit paler, and that side of my face is always a bit better.

I have also tried topical phenylephrine in both 1 and 2%. It seems for me to be able to vasoconstrict more of the superficial flushing, but does little for the deep flushing if I have a trigger like heat in place. You can actually see the skin around the flush zone become quite pale, even compared to the normal tissue. If I'm not having a really deep flush, it can take it away completely. It doesn't have the same effects for extended periods of time though. I do notice that my face looks more pale and is less reactive at the end of the day when I use it. It sort of halts the hyperactivity cycle a bit. However, the skin doesn't seem to keep that striking paleness that it takes on when first applied for very long. I would say maybe 20-45 min only, and it certainly won't stop the deep flushing. Anyway these are just my experiences, and I am hopeful about both. I would be interested to hear what Dr. Nase's response is to the way my skin behaves with these. If this is typical of other people that have tried this, and if the San Rosa product will target the deep flushing? I hope he sees this.


Hi Jane,

1. Botox experience. This does happen even with the best BOTOX specialists. That is why they are trying to get away from needles and use more superficial blockade and even diffusion which is also key. It does go away though each time and in many cases it is worth the benefit/risk ratio. Botox is not really for red faces. Its more for selective forms of active flushing. Iontophoretic pad application will make a very big difference.

2. Remember I said there where phenylephrine derivatives and other selective agonists -- this changes the ballgame. Also, information which I cannot divulge until they publish it, the adjunctive active medication in this product is a completely different molecule and is thought to be the strongest constrictor in the compound. They will get the superficial vessels and probably reach the first set of feed vessels.

[Andy]

I use propranolol occasionally, but I sometimes flush straight through it. I got a sample of eucerin redness relief that my derm forced upon me (because she's a really caring derm, and is always excited to learn about new treatments), but I shudder at the thought of wearing a concealer... It's just too significant a blow to my pride.

Jimbo, being a guy I can totally relate to what you're saying. BUT - it just takes some time getting used to. I had never used anything on my face before all this started, and now I'm using ZincO daily and some other stuff. You have to give it a chance. It can actully be something worth checking out. Maybe you won't think so now, but it can help you boost and gain some of your lost self esteem.

You mentioned Eucerin, I'm a bit curious about their products myself. Let us know what you think if you do try them.

[drnase]

Jim,

Great to have yo on board. Did you get the two for one sale. Since you just joined you may not have seen the most recent disclaimer. There is a charge of a penny for every letter in an answer. If it ends up being a lot of pennies, there are payment plans including sending a penny each month in the mail.

Neural flushing is the worst and hardest type of flush to treat. Beta blockers will not help that much, but if you do, Corgard has some unique features that make it the best for rosacea (as per Wilkin's advice).

Clonidine is worth a shot, but just lowers the intesnity some.

Medicaton s that turn off the hypothalamus are the best, but most addictive and dangerous.

Laser, Laser laser for right now. No one can tell you differently for now.

Sorry that was not he answer you were looking for.

[JimJimson]

Jimbo, being a guy I can totally relate to what you're saying. BUT - it just takes some time getting used to. I had never used anything on my face before all this started, and now I'm using ZincO daily and some other stuff. You have to give it a chance. It can actully be something worth checking out. Maybe you won't think so now, but it can help you boost and gain some of your lost self esteem.

You mentioned Eucerin, I'm a bit curious about their products myself. Let us know what you think if you do try them.

I appreciate that, bud. I'm not judging us guys who do decide to conceal the problem - it just sorta goes against my personal philosophy. I'm the kind of guy who never combs his hair, because I'm really comfortable with the way I look. Inevitably, I may have to try it out just so I can feel bloody normal again.

[foxguy]

thanks for the info dr nase,

do you think there will be any benefit to be had from the blockading of sympathetic nerve activity using electrical blocking techniques, instead of the old ets technique?

users could turn the blocking effect on and off when they so desired, while avoiding serious side-effects. reversable too!

[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/c4cam/blocker3.jpg][/img]

[drnase]

Foxguy,

Someone sent me that same information yesterday. A female from a group. I did not have time to talk to her or ask her specifics. I know that the intrathecal catheters that release clonidine are sometimes very helpful, but I know nothing about this system.

If it is hooked up to the dorsal or ventral horn then I would be a little concerned because you dont want to ever fool around with them. If it is hooked up to the postganlionic nerve cluster..........it may. I honestly dont know enough about the device to comment.

[JimJimson]

Jim,

Great to have yo on board. Did you get the two for one sale. Since you just joined you may not have seen the most recent disclaimer. There is a charge of a penny for every letter in an answer. If it ends up being a lot of pennies, there are payment plans including sending a penny each month in the mail.

Neural flushing is the worst and hardest type of flush to treat. Beta blockers will not help that much, but if you do, Corgard has some unique features that make it the best for rosacea (as per Wilkin's advice).

Clonidine is worth a shot, but just lowers the intesnity some.

Medicaton s that turn off the hypothalamus are the best, but most addictive and dangerous.

Laser, Laser laser for right now. No one can tell you differently for now.

Sorry that was not he answer you were looking for.

I'm uh a little low on dough right now, so uh you'll just have to settle for an IOU.

I've had mixed success with propranolol, but then again I'm only taking 10 mg tablets occasionally. I'm sure they'd be more useful if I had a higher dosage, and it's only a matter of time before I'll probably need that, since my body is getting pretty rapidly adjusted to such a small amount. Oh well, life goes on.

BTW glad you're still around, Doc. I respect your perseverance more than your contributions, I just wonder what you'll do with yourself several years down the road when this rosacea thing's beat.

[drnase]

Jim,

Great to have yo on board. Did you get the two for one sale. Since you just joined you may not have seen the most recent disclaimer. There is a charge of a penny for every letter in an answer. If it ends up being a lot of pennies, there are payment plans including sending a penny each month in the mail.

Neural flushing is the worst and hardest type of flush to treat. Beta blockers will not help that much, but if you do, Corgard has some unique features that make it the best for rosacea (as per Wilkin's advice).

Clonidine is worth a shot, but just lowers the intesnity some.

Medicaton s that turn off the hypothalamus are the best, but most addictive and dangerous.

Laser, Laser laser for right now. No one can tell you differently for now.

Sorry that was not he answer you were looking for.

I'm uh a little low on dough right now, so uh you'll just have to settle for an IOU.

I've had mixed success with propranolol, but then again I'm only taking 10 mg tablets occasionally. I'm sure they'd be more useful if I had a higher dosage, and it's only a matter of time before I'll probably need that, since my body is getting pretty rapidly adjusted to such a small amount. Oh well, life goes on.

BTW glad you're still around, Doc. I respect your perseverance more than your contributions, I just wonder what you'll do with yourself several years down the road when this rosacea thing's beat.


That dose is very low. I believe my father said Corgard is the best beacuse it has two peaks which is really strange. Dr. Wilkin on Nadolol (Corgard):

Oral antihypertensive medications are now being used to reduce facial flushing that is mediated by sympathetic nerves and hormonal surges -- i.e., those evoked by the ‘fight-or-flight response’, anxiety, stress, certain emotions, and spontaneously. (5, 8, 12, 61) By decreasing major bouts of facial flushing, oral antihypertensive medications may also have beneficial actions on facial inflammation.


ORAL ANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATIONS: BETA-BLOCKERS
(NADOLOL & PROPRANOLOL)

Nadolol

Oral beta-blockers work by ‘blocking beta receptors’ in the heart and skin blood vessels that respond to certain neural and hormonal stimuli. These actions are helpful in reducing some forms of vascular flushing such as fight or flight situations, stress, anxiety, and certain emotional upsets. In the superb article, “Recognizing and Managing Rosacea”, Dr. Wilkin indicates that nadolol, a non-selective beta blocker, may be somewhat helpful in reducing the flushing and blushing reaction to emotions and anxiety. (8) Furthermore, in the study, “Effect of Nadolol on Flushing Reactions in Rosacea”, Dr. Wilkin documented that nadolol may be helpful in reducing the intensity and duration of spontaneous facial flushing in some rosacea sufferers. (62)

Nadolol dosage: Dr. Wilkin recommends that rosacea sufferers take 40 milligrams of nadolol every morning. (8) In a small percentage of patients, he sometimes increases the dosage up to 80 milligrams. He states, “The goal is to follow the heart rate: lowering the heart rate by 8 to 10 beats per minute is sufficient to alleviate – but not completely block – the anxiety-induced tachycardia and flushing.” (8)

Nadolol side effects: In general, nadolol is a very safe medication. Some subjects report mild sedation and light-headedness. The body usually adjusts to these side effects within the first few weeks of treatment.

Propranolol

Propranolol is a different type of beta-blocker that may also be useful in the treatment of rosacea flushing. (8) Propranolol may effectively reduce the intensity and duration of neural or hormonal flushing associated with fight-or-flight situations, stress, anxiety, certain emotional upsets and, spontaneously.

Propranolol dosage: While nadolol is Dr. Wilkin’s first choice of beta-blocker, he states that, “If long-acting propranolol is chosen for its low cost, it should be administered according to the migraine regimen outlined in the Physician’s Desk Reference.” (8)

Propranolol side effects: In general, propranolol is a very safe medication. Some subjects report mild sedation and light-headedness. The body usually adjusts to these side effects within the first few weeks of treatment.

Important: Limitations of Oral Beta Blockers


While beta-blockers are moderately effective in reducing some forms of facial flushing, general physicians should be aware that these medications are not the final solution for most rosacea sufferers. Physicians should understand that while these are an important part of the rosacea arsenal, most sufferers will need additional treatment in order to achieve more complete rosacea clearance.

Consistent with this, Dr. Wilkin demonstrated in a controlled study on 15 rosacea sufferers that beta-blockers have benefits and limitations. (62) He suggests that while beta-blockers may reduce flushing to anxiety, certain emotional strains, and spontaneously, they do not alter other forms of flushing such as those induced by hot water, alcohol, or niacin. Other medical specialists concur with the above report, indicating that beta-blockers are only moderately effective for some forms of rosacea flushing. (16, 23, 61, 63)


ORAL ANTIHYPERTENSIVE MEDICATIONS: CLONIDINE, RILMENIDINE AND MOXONODINE

Clonidine

Clonidine is an effective antihypertensive medication. Clonidine is also one of the most popular medications for rosacea due to its ability to reduce some forms of neural and hormonal flushing. In the study, “Clonidine and Facial Flushing in Rosacea”, Dr. Cunliffe and colleagues studied the effect of oral clonidine (0.05 milligrams 2 times daily) on 17 rosacea patients who experienced frequent bouts of flushing. (64) These physicians found that low-dose clonidine significantly decreased the frequency and severity of flushing attacks in some sufferers. (64) They concluded that clonidine may be beneficial for rosacea patients whose primary complaint is frequent flushing. In support of this, Dr. Wilkin indicates that in his clinical experience, oral clonidine can effectively reduce certain forms of neural and hormonal rosacea flushing. (65) Dr. Wilkin cites several reasons why clonidine may be effective in alleviating certain forms of rosacea flushing: (65)

1. Clonidine may act directly on the facial blood vessels to cause mild constriction.

2. Clonidine may act centrally within the brain to decrease sympathetic nerve-mediated flushing.
3. Clonidine may act centrally to decrease body temperature (i.e., lower internal core temperature).

It is also well documented that clonidine can reduce facial flushing associated with menopausal hot flashes. (8)

Clonidine dosage: The recommended dosage for rosacea treatment is 0.05 milligrams 2 times daily. (8, 65) Some rosacea sufferers may experience greater benefits at higher dosages such as 0.05 milligrams 3 times daily, or 0.1 milligrams 2 times daily. (66) High-dose treatment should only be performed under the tight supervision of a medical physician, and should only be increased gradually to this level.

Clonidine side effects: At the onset of treatment clonidine may cause sedation, mouth dryness, and tiredness. (67) The body usually adjusts to these side effects within the first month of treatment. Patients are also cautioned not to abruptly stop this medication due to blood pressure-related side effects. Patients are always instructed to gradually taper off of this medication.

Rilmenidine

Rilmendine is a potent antihypertensive medication that acts centrally within the brain to decrease sympathetic nerve activity. (68) This oral medication has great potential for rosacea flushing because of its effectiveness in decreasing sympathetic nerve activity and its relative lack of side effects. This medication is more selective and potent than clonidine. Some medical references on rilmenidine’s actions are included below:

• Clinical and experimental studies demonstrate that rilmenidine is very effective at reducing sympathetic nerve activity. (69-71)

• A series of 1997 and 1998 medical articles in the Journal of Hypertension demonstrates that rilmenidine dramatically reduces sympathetic nerve activity. (72) These studies indicate that




rilmenidine helps to normalize human disease resulting from overactive sympathetic nerves. (71, 73)

• In a 1999 multicenter study conducted in France, 18,235 hypertensive patients were treated with low-dose rilmenidine for 12 months and then re-evaluated. (74) Low-dose rilmenidine (1 to 2 milligrams daily) was found to lower sympathetic nerve activity in 83% of the patients. On this treatment, side effects were generally mild and transient. (74)

• Recently, experimental studies have demonstrated that oral rilmenidine may lower resting sympathetic nerve activity, and decrease overactive sympathetic nerve activity in response to certain stress responses. (75)

Rilmenidine and rosacea: In a recent clinical study, “Rilmenidine in Rosacea: A Double-Blind Study Versus Placebo”, physicians evaluated the effect of rilmenidine on rosacea symptoms (1 milligram per day for 3 months). (76) The main action of rilmenidine was in reducing the number of rosacea flushes per day. Physicians stressed that these where only preliminary results and that other studies should be performed on more patients in order to evaluate rilmenidine’s effectiveness on the neuro-vascular component of rosacea. It is important to note that higher daily doses may be needed to achieve more complete sympathetic nerve blockade in rosacea sufferers.

Rilmenidine dosage: There are currently no general guidelines for rilmenidine dosing in rosacea treatment. In the above study, rilmenidine was given at 1 milligram per day. (76)

Rilmenidine side effects: This medication is very selective for certain receptors in the brain and thus is associated with fewer side effects than clonidine. It does not usually cause sedation, mouth dryness, and tiredness like clonidine. (67)




Moxonodine

Moxonodine is a potent antihypertensive medication that also acts centrally within the brain to decrease sympathetic nerve activity. (68) Numerous clinical and experimental studies demonstrate that moxonodine is very effective at reducing sympathetic nerve activity. (69-71) In a recent medical review comparing moxonodine to rilmenidine, moxonodine was found to be more potent and selective than rilmenidine. (68)

Oral moxonodine has great potential for rosacea sufferers; however, clinical studies on its effect on rosacea flushing have not been performed yet.

My personal experience with Moxonodine: I found moxonodine (Physiotens filmtabs, Solvay Pharma, 0.4 milligrams) to be one of the most effective oral medications on my sympathetic nerve-induced flushing (fight-or-flight flush, thermoregulatory flush, anxiety/stress flush, and spontaneous flush). It was not a cure, but it significantly decreased the number and intensity of nerve-induced flushes. I personally found it to be much more effective than clonidine, with fewer side effects.

Moxonodine dosage: There are currently no general guidelines for moxonodine dosing in rosacea treatment. Rosacea sufferers may be instructed to follow the general guidelines used for the treatment of hypertension.

Moxonodine side effects: This medication is very selective for certain receptors within the brain and thus is associated with fewer side effects than clonidine (it does not cause sedation, mouth dryness, and tiredness like clonidine). (67) In a 1998 medical article in Drug Safety, the safety and tolerability of moxonodine was reviewed over an 8-year period (1989 to 1997), including 74 clinical trials and an estimated 370,000 patient-years of exposure. (77) The safety profile was found to be excellent, and the adverse side effects were minor and transient. (77)

[drnase]

Jim you asked me what I will do after rosacea is cured. Easy. Write books on diabetes -- The Books for Dummies series offered me a two book deal on Type I and Type II Diabetes. I would love to do that and hope I get the chance to very soon.

[JimJimson]

Good luck with that. Your rosacea book really simplified things for me, which was particularly surprising since I sometimes need a Mandarin Chinese translator at hand to help me decipher some of your posts, written in "medspeak."

Why I would need a Chinese translator to understand medspeak we may never know.

[drnase]

Good luck with that. Your rosacea book really simplified things for me, which was particularly surprising since I sometimes need a Mandarin Chinese translator at hand to help me decipher some of your posts, written in "medspeak."

Why I would need a Chinese translator to understand medspeak we may never know.


Jim, it has been my experience that it is best to get a sign language expert to help the Chinese translator uncover the secret teachings of medspeak.

Sincerely though, I thought I was half decent at presenting the hard to read medical mumbo jumbo down so that most could understand. I am now considering hiring a third grader just for posts to you. He would then have to dummy it down even futher though probably. :lol:

[JimJimson]

Jim, it has been my experience that it is best to get a sign language expert to help the Chinese translator uncover the secret teachings of medspeak.

Sincerely though, I thought I was half decent at presenting the hard to read medical mumbo jumbo down so that most could understand. I am now considering hiring a third grader just for posts to you. He would then have to dummy it down even futher though probably. :lol:

Nice, I got a pretty good laugh outta that.

[drnase]

So you understood that Jim?

[JimJimson]

Ya, you can borrow it.



...wait, I'm confused again.

[NoMoreRed!]

So in the meantime, while we wait for SansRosa and I use propranolol occasionally, but I sometimes flush straight through it. I got a sample of eucerin redness relief that my derm forced upon me (because she's a really caring derm, and is always excited to learn about new treatments), but I shudder at the thought of wearing a concealer... It's just too significant a blow to my pride.


I have tested Eucerin for a week or so, and it seems to cover up the red pretty good (the green stuff). I don't have to use so much makeup now. Actually, now I don't blush so often. I don't know why. Maybe it's a placebo effect, maybe its something in the makeup or the Eucerin, or maybe it's just because I know that I look more normal, and don't got a red face. I honestly don't know, but it's sure helping me, a lot.

I'm also going to get a hand on some Moxonidine soon (when I get a new doctor - d'oh). Just to use when most needed. Not often.

Belive me, I'm was really against the hole makeup idea, but I sucked it up, and tried it. Now I use the hole Eucerin treatment thing (four products, I think) and some makeup from www.skin-etc.com. So, Jim, I don't want to sound cheeky or anything, but suck it up. Maybe it will change your life.

I've read that you got a pretty hard job. If you sweat a lot, that can be a little problem. So start with just a little makeup, and try to use more if needed.

And another cheeky question: Are you fat? If you are. Try to lower the calorie intake. That will make your nervous system less active.

Anyway, thanks for all help. I've read a lot of your posts on the other board, and I've learned a lot from you. :bowing:

(Sorry for poor english, it's not my language :( )


EDIT: I sent Jim Fay an email, and here's the reply:

Nothing to report as of yet.You might want to check back this Fall. regards. Jim

(Maybe not so interesting, but heck).

[Callien]

NMR

Thanks for the link to Skin-ETC. Just ordered some products from them and got five free samples which is nice considering all the money I've spent trying various products. Good to be able to try free of charge. I ordered samples of the Replenix CF Serum and the Citrix Sunscreen. I also ordered a sample organic sunblock from DDF. I've never heard that one mentioned before but will give it a try. I also ordered from a company called Benev. Never heard of them before either. They have a hyaluronic moisturizer that only has one ingredient plus water. Not hard to figure out what I'm allergic to if it doesn't work. Benev also has a sample of pure squalane. I've heard some mention they might be sensitive to squalane so great way to do a spot check and see if that's the ingredient. I've seen squalane in a number of products so it would be easy to cross those off my list if it turns out I'm sensitive too. Well, just my ever elusive quest for products that won't irritate my skin and might actually provide some benefit.

[Callien]

Sorry, kind of derailed this thread. I've been using Clonidine. It helps with social flushing but the side effects are nasty. I plan to order moxonodine off the Internet and give it a try.
Jim, I understand your reluctance to cover-ups. I dislike wearing foundation and I guess I'm supposed to like it, I just think it looks so fake. One exception was a receptionist at a Dr. office who said she used one of those powder mineral makeups. It looked good on her and I never would have known she had makeup on if she hadn't told me.

[Bob Bear]

I had planned to test out Moxonidine. However, I was unable to get a prescription (yep, Bob Bear gets another denial!). My GP wasnt prepared to accept that a hypertension drug had any place in the treatment of a 'skin' disorder.


Dr Nase,

Im liking the fact that you have plans post rosacea. Its easy for us to think that rosacea is going to be with us forever - you clearly do not. Thats great! In ten years time I'll probably see your name somewhere in a magazine or library, and I'll think, 'Nase, Iv heard that name before???'. Maybe in a bad dream or something :lol:

I find it so surreal actually contemplating the day when rosacea will no longer blyte my exsistence.

Sorry, bit OT.

[drnase]

I had planned to test out Moxonidine. However, I was unable to get a prescription (yep, Bob Bear gets another denial!). My GP wasnt prepared to accept that a hypertension drug had any place in the treatment of a 'skin' disorder.


Dr Nase,

Im liking the fact that you have plans post rosacea. Its easy for us to think that rosacea is going to be with us forever - you clearly do not. Thats great! In ten years time I'll probably see your name somewhere in a magazine or library, and I'll think, 'Nase, Iv heard that name before???'. Maybe in a bad dream or something :lol:

I find it so surreal actually contemplating the day when rosacea will no longer blyte my exsistence.

Sorry, bit OT.


Oh no, rosacea will be literally gone from our vocabulary with Biologic Modifiers and Gene treatments blazing at the speed of light.

I cant wait to get my hands into Diabetes.

[Bob Bear]

Lets hope the world of diabetes is a little less... turbulent!

Im sure all us rosacea folk will have our fingers crossed for you.

[Callien]

I had planned to test out Moxonidine. However, I was unable to get a prescription (yep, Bob Bear gets another denial!). My GP wasnt prepared to accept that a hypertension drug had any place in the treatment of a 'skin' disorder.




I'm seeing a doctor at the university I'm attending and he is very accommodating and it costs me next to nothing. But I know the whole being shot down scenario from prior experience. This Dr. was more than willing to prescribe but Moxonidine is not available in the US so someone provided me with this link:

http://www.mastersmarketing.com/price_m.htm

I'm very grateful but can't remember who it was off the top of my head. I haven't ordered from this company yet but did get Accutane from another online site that someone recommended. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Bob Bear]

Thanks Callien, I might give that a try.

To be honest though Id prefer to get all meds from my GP. At least that way if I go belly up my family will know who to sue :wink:

Also, I think I may be able to get a script from my IPL doc is ask him nicely enough. He is also a GP, and I know he prescribes these drugs to his patients.

[snwbdrloco84]

Hey Callien,

Email the link to where you got accutane from successfully w/o a prescription. I have been trying to find a safe site. My email is snwbdrloco84@hotmail.com

Thanks,
Ray

[prryjones]

Bear,
Don't mean to rain on your enthusiasm, but I thinks it's better to view this cautiously. Remember that except for isotretinion (Accutane), the standard tx for rosaca today is much the same as it was ten years ago (oral antibiotics, avoid triggers).
Of course, I'm privy to no info thats not on the web...so I have limited intelligence on this.
Also, I realize that one can't assume that just because not much has changed in the last 10 years, that this means the same for the next. But I think it's safe to be a little cautious on this. Lets see what happens in the next 5 years or so, before we start contemplating a life without rosacea.
I wonder if Dr. Nase would agree that genetic cures are probably not in our lifetime (?)
Lets just hope for some better tx's while we're still fairly young. I think this is a much more realistic hope.
Perry

[Bob Bear]

Yep, them be wise words by Perry.

But Im sure you agree it cant to dream once every now and then. As a rosacea sufferer you spend that much time being overly pesimistic, sometimes it helps to get positive.

My rosacea isnt that bad, I have mild subtype I. Since IPL is has been quite managable. However, I still have to live the rosacea lifestyle, because I saw what happened when I didnt - it got much worse, very quickly.

When I can get a script for something that will do a convincing job of blocking flushing and most triggers, then I'll be a happy bunny. This is all I need to live a rosacea free life. I think there are many people in the same boat as me too.

So maybe Sansrosa and the other future meds will be all that. They may not be the cure all, but if they can take the edge off these symptoms then they'll be close enough for me.

[Jonesy]

. They may not be the cure all, but if they can take the edge off these symptoms then they'll be close enough for me.

Same here. Every human being has some kind of flushing reaction to certain stimuli, all I want is to be 'normal', and that's all that any of us want I'm sure. I don't mind having a slight red tint, I don't mind flushing a little, but I DO mind being angrily red and getting major flushing episodes. It's the intensity of the symptoms, not their mere existence, which ruins us.

[Bob Bear]

Jonesy,

I think there are very different levels of suffering on this board. For people like you and I rosacea is an inconvenience. We know that living 'normally' will quickly push our rosacea out of control, so we do what we have to in order to avoid triggers. This leads us into anxiety, depression etc. At least that my case - I went from prerosacea to mild/moderate subtype I in just a few years, and it destroyed my mental health. Now that Iv gotten it back under control with IPL, Im doing all i can to keep it at bay. And so far Iv been successful, since my symptoms havent worsened noticable in three years.

However, there are others who have moderate / severe rosacea who are in a quite different camp. Many of these guys have symptoms all day everyday that you or I couldnt imagine. For these people rosacea is more than an inconvenience, its completely debiliating. In addition, many of these people have proven resistent to current treatments. These are the people who REALLY need these new treatments.

For us Jonesy, these new flushing meds will probably enable us to live as normal. For the guys with severe rosacea, they will hopefully give them some kind of life back before the real deal comes along (gene therapies and whatnot).

It'll be an interesting couple of years. Im waiting with baited breath!