On my mind: Should I save up and see Dr. Darm?

[IowaDavid]

I understand that there are future plans for the rosacea institute with Dr. Nase and Dr. Darm. I know this is in the future at some point, and that its realization is contingent upon many things (and let's not discount that Dr. Nase is currently recovering from a life-threatening disease after surgery--all the best, man, and take your time).
I have seen 4 laser doctors so far. And I've had so many laser treatments. The problem I find is that I don't think any of them, save Dr. Byers near Kansas City, really understood what needed to be done to treat the disease. Not that the treatments I'm getting now are ineffective, but like everyone here, I want that total clearance and my life back.
Part of me wants to invest in a three-treatment protocol for a week with Dr. Darm--the payment of treatment, temp housing, other expenses, etc.--and see if this will really knock my condition back.
It's a large investment for me, as I am of simple means and have very little cash to toss around.
But I weigh this against the understanding Dr. Darm has of rosacea, his constant contact with Dr. Nase. Essentially, it seems that Dr. Darm, and hopefully, in the future, Dr. Nase, would be absolutely the best doctors to see to "normalize" my condition.
I'm kind of torn. I've built up a healthy skepticism of doctors and derms and laser doctors over the past few years. It's hard for me to envision a fantastic result from a set of treatments--it's antithetical to what I've experienced over the past few years of laser treatment.
But, then again, we are talking about cutting-edge treatment by knowledgeable doctors.
I just don't know. I'm torn right now.
Anyone else feel this way? Are you considering taking the trip out to Portland?
Maybe it's just the defeats and let-downs, compounded, that are making me skeptical. It's difficult at times to stay positive and optimistic with this disease.
Comments from those who've seen Dr. Darm, or any other comments on this matter, are appreciated. 8)


David

My thoughts on this are; if you can raise the cash then absolutely, if it involves you being in debt to someone to raise the cash then absolutley not. I don't think anyone can give you the promise of 100% clearance and with that in mind if you are having trouble working full time now, yr going to be in an even worse position if after the treatment you are only marginally better face wise but in a heap of debt bank wise that you have to find a way of paying off.

Thats the way i view it anyhow.

[snwbdrloco84]

Hi Dave,

I have the same thoughts as you on seeing Dr. Darm. I have spoken with him on the phone and even emailed him my pictures. Not more than a half hour after sending my pictures he called me and gave me his educated opinion on what treatment protocols I should pursue. I talked to him twice or three times that same day. I have never talked with a dermatologist directly on the phone. Because of this, I feel confident that I would be receiving the best treatments(YAG+IPL combo, and maybe N-lite) with him. I am thinking of getting 6 treatments over the course of 2 weeks. Since I am a 21 year old male in college, this would be a costly endeavor on my part plus I am trying to save $$ for an engagement ring. Maybe if I provide a convincing argument to my insurance company, Aetna...

Ray

[ken972]

Out of curiousity...apart from airfare and hotel..about how much is the 3 treatments in a week protocol? I havent had laser treatment yet and wondering if I should take a chance on someone trained by Dr. Bitter in the area or head out to Dr. Darm.

[granola grrrl]

Hi Guys,
OK, so here are my thoughts on this. For me it is a brutal Catch 22. I have no money. I make a salary that will make it impossible for me to save money for laser tx. My parents are not rich. However, they know how I suffer and how my life is restricted/affected by rosacea. So they offer to give me $$ to go to Dr. Darm (or whoever) for laser tx. This puts me in debt to them (although as my parents they would never ask or expect the money back....I am a very luck girl). Still, it would plague me to take the $$ from them and I would insist to pay it back.

However, to say get a job that pays more or get two jobs to save the money is impossible for me. To go into another work environment where there are unknown variables of heat, and lighting, would kill me. I am barely able to hold down my current job (and my ocular symptoms of blurring vision are making even working on a computer difficult these days). Plus I have other health issues that make doing 2 jobs very dangerous on my energy reserves.

I just turned 36 this year. Some friends tell me I should wait a few years till laser tx advances that little bit more. But in my heart I wonder how much longer I lose my life. I'll be 40 in a few short years (UGH!!!).

If I had laser tx that was a guarantee of good clearance of permanent redness and diminishing flushing and triggers it could give me back my life so I COULD venture into other jobs, make more money and repay back any money I borrow to get the laser txs. However, I do understand Sally Ann's point that no one (even the best) can guarantee you full clearance probably...I would expect at least 75% if I was forking out $5000 (or however much it costs)...

I am a FIERCELY independent person. I will likely continue to try and find my own way out of this. Years will build up. I'm not sure where I'll get.
So, this is a catch 22 I'm sure MANY of us face. Not so many are lucky enough to have people willing to give them $$ to do the tx.

PS. I think Dr. Darm sounds fantastic and if I was banking my money, I'd go to the best (and he seems like one of the best). Hopefully other derms will learn from him and the other few pioneers in the field.

Shelley

[prryjones]

Hi all,
Concerning costly laser txs, the best one can do now is put yourself into the best hands (eg Drs. Darm, Soldo, etc) and hope for the best. That is a crying shame, in my opinion.
Maybe you all have seen my somewhat cynical posts the past week concerning the use (or lack of) the confocal microscope and its potential in aiding IPL efficacy.
I think we need to press these dang Drs. to either use this technology for us or explain why they are not pursuing it. I mean...come on...five hundred bucks a pop and you're still only really hoping for the best!
LETS MAKE THESE DRS. KNOW THAT WE'RE AWARE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY AND THAT WE WONT SETTLE FOR LESS.
If any of you guys speak with Dr. Darm...ask him why this is not being used???
I am going to email Dr. Soldo with the same question.
I'll post the exchange to the forum.
Regards,
Perry Jones

I think many of us are in the same catch22 however for those of us who are living in developed countries should spare a thought for those who have no way of scraping a decent amount of money together and no way of obtaining a visa to travel to the right doctors anyhow.

I consider myself extremely fortunate to be in the position i am and i know that i could get a job tomorrow that paid a decent wage and earn enough money within the year. Now if my face would just stop flushing long enough for..........bugger theres that catch 22 again! :mrgreen:

[granola grrrl]

HI Sally,
Of course there are people in far worse situations in the world. If you have a career where you CAN go out and make more $ tomorrow to save for laser tx in a year then you are even more fortunate. Even some of us in developed countries do not have this fortune.

I am very fortunate that I can earn at least enough to be able to pay the several thousand a year I do on skin care products, makeup, supplements and drugs to control my rosacea. Very lucky indeed and not a day goes by I don't appreciate that and feel so much gratitude. My heart truly goes out to those that cannot have access to even these basic treatments. UNfortunately we can't fix the world but perhaps there are small ways we can help, through this forum, exchanging of ideas, etc.

Like Perry said too, we need to press the average doctor (I don't put Darm or Soldo in that category as I think they are true pioneers) to step up to the plate and use the technology that is available and pursue those advances that are on the verge of being possible new waves in treatment. We need more docs that push the envelope and don't settle for superficial improvements.

Shelley

[arcticlobo]

I look at it this way: Many of us know that laser treatment is the best option for trying to diminish the effects of rosacea, and yet it can be very expensive. But you only get one shot at life...would you rather continue with your rosacea the way it is, or progressing, or spend the money at a good change or relief from rosacea?? Worst case, you amass 5 grand in debt and you condition is not improved. But you stand a very good chance of improved symptoms, and getting your life back. Is it worth 5 grand for a chance to get your normal life back? And why postpone treatment years from now? I would get the treatment as soon as possible, or you will lose those years to rosacea.

Thats just my opinion...I have mild rosacea and I will going to see Dr. Darm this winter.

[granola grrrl]

Hey Perry :wink:
I know those cross-eyed looks very well!!! True, the pioneers need to at least be the first to start using new things and pushing the envelope. Maybe I am being idealistic in that there might be some other intelligent and caring doctors out there who are "pioneers in the making" (with a little friendly push from savvy people like us on this Forum :)

I don't know what it will take to get the 'average' doctor interested in pursuing above average treatment protocols when they still have clients willing to fork out the money (and cross their fingers behind their back that it will work), so that they can pay for their machines (and their nice yachts or whatever). OK, I'm getting too cynical here....

I think we as consumers need to raise our expectation level of laser doctors in general. We are already self-educating ourselves (sometimes to a level that shocks or puts them off). But whatever we need to do to show them that they are falling behind new trends (e.g. in flushing protocols), that they will lose clients (like you and I) if they don't adapt to the real needs of the market, etc. There's gotta be a marketing pitch here :)

Go get 'em Perry-tiger.

Shelley

[granola grrrl]

Hey!
What happened to your last post right here Perry? It just disappeared after I posted my response to you. Did I erase yours somehow????

....strange....

Shelley

[prryjones]

Golly Shelley!
Why did you have to go and delete my post?
I feel crushed!!!
You post deleter, you!
I'm gonna complain to the forum....there's gotta be a suitable punishment....I know...I'm gonna sick Marc on you....
Perry

[granola grrrl]

Wow, I guess I have a magical talent for making posts disappear! Watch out Marc (just kiddn'.....love ya!!) :wink:

I plead innocent by reason of ocular rosacea.....w..h..e.r.e...is t..that but.t.ttton....n..ow.....


Shelley
:D

[snwbdrloco84]

Does anyone know about the insurance letter Dr. Darm was going to provide to our insurance companies for reimbursement? I remember Dr. Nase saying something about this, but it could be in the future when the Rosacea Institue gets underway in a few years.

Ray

[icuraus_cat]

I had IPL and laser treatment 6 times, with no results other than new vessels. Now, I regret that I didn't wait for a good doctor like Darm or Soldo. I would go for Dr. Darm as I know that I can't live thinking about my face all the time. First, try to convince your insurance company. The cost of laser treatment is $550 (Darm), and a bit cheaper if you buy a series. You pay at the clinic, and then send the claim form. The insurance will request the letter to the doctor. Dr. Darm's office will send a letter to them. If insurance company refuses to pay, you can get a cosmetic surgery loan. Check some sites. Even though a doctor was trained by Dr. Bitter, it is not month, or year long training. Maybe 1-3 day training. And Dr. Bitter himself continuously improved his protocol, so if a doctor didn't do study himself/herself, s/he may not worth of your hard earning money. Many doctors don't spend more than 15 minutes for treatment. I don't make a lot of money, and yes, I will end up with some credit card debt after seeing Dr. Darm. However, I will think about how to pay the debt back later because where there is a will, there is a road. Be positive, go for the best doctor, get healed, praying for a job with bigger salary!! :D

[Kel]

I have been contemplating flying out ot be treated by Dr Darm. You have ot look at this way (sadly)

I ave wasted hundreds and hundreds of dollars being treated by a clueless derm locally, who is not really getting rid of my flushing. Candela seems ot have a lock on the Northeast :(

By investing in Dr Darm I know I will be getting the best possible treatment, and managing the roscaea so hopefully I wont need any treatments for a few years afterwards...as opposed to being treated god knows how wmany times with the local idiot.

I do agree that there is no point throwing money at a derm or laser doc who isn't making progress in eradicating what yr paying them to do. HOWEVER it does worry me that people may put an awful lot of money on a credit card or against a bank loan in the hope of a magical cure. t

he thing that makes this condition so insidious is that it isn't just phsyiological it is also psychological and even if the laser does help 95% with yr skin problem you still have to try and forget all the mental barriers we have constructed along the way as a reason why we can't 'get on with things'.

What ive just tried to badly explain is you don't want to be in a position where you get back from yr laser treatments and have to launch back into living this 'new rosacea free life' which includes having to find a great job to pay off a large debt. Its an awful lot of pressure i think.

Hope that makes some sense

[granola grrrl]

Hi Sally Ann,
This is an excellent point. Thank you for bringing it up. After years or decades suffering with rosacea and the psychological ramifications, those habits and internal beliefs etc just don't go away over night. So while you begin to heal physically (through laser tx or whatever), you will also expect to have psychological work to do in rebuilding your self and your life.
Great point.

Shelley :wink:

[cactus]

I think when your rosacea gets to a point where it is just intolerable, in my mind, there is no other choice than to go for the best treatment available. If you don't, you will always be wondering "what if". My vote goes for beg, borrow, but don't steal the money and go for it.

[KHM]

I am going to see Dr. Darm in a month. I am going for the every other day setup, 4 TRX in all.

I have already had 4 IPL and 1 Vbeam, and they helped tremendously. I have the P&P form, had intense itching and the start of neural burning, and was exquisitly sensitive to histamine in foods. I am hoping to "finish" the beast, not be so reactive and sensitive.

Will post how it went after it is all done. I am scared to death of course. But I was before all my IPL and the Vbeam too. Not my idea of fun.

[Tamara]

Hi KHM,

Thanks for posting. Please be sure to let us know how your treatments go. I hope they put the "beast" to rest for good.

Tamara

[irishgenes]

I am saving up to go to Dr. Darm. I just don't trust mediocre doctors to get the job done right. The local derm's airhead assistant said she would be using 13 joules on me with her new Titan machine. That sounded far too low from what I have read, so I canceled.

[lorilu]

But just to give some reality to those of you who are looking to travel to an expert. I did that two years ago , I traveled to the "best" IPL doctor in the country at that time, drove 18 hours at least 12 times and it only made me worse, so please be realistic in your expectations. I just don't want you to be hurt as I was.