Rosace and gluten

[thatguy]

Hey guys,

I haven't posted here in a while, but I figured I should provide an update.

About a year and a half ago I posted a thread about a possible link between rosacea and SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth):

http://rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=13631

The gist of the post was that rosacea could be caused by an overgrowth of bacteria in our intestines that feeds off of sugar/carbs. I've had IBS/bowel problems (as well as rosacea) for the past 9 or 10 years now, so it made a lot of sense. Regrettably, I live outside of the U.S. and was never able to get a prescription filled.

I did some more reading and found that a number of people who took rifaximin and were temporarily "cured" would often have to go back on antibiotics because the symptoms/overgrowth would return. Later on, I stumbled across a site written by a lady with celiac disease (http://www.glutenfreegirl.blogspot.com/). The thing I immediately noticed was the rash on her face before and after going gluten free:

Before:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/11/13620557_7b6f9814ef_o.jpg

After:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/397028549_b26f0b9a7f.jpg

What was even more interesting to me was that a lot of the other symptoms she had, I also share. In addition to my rosacea, I've had anxiety, fatigue, creaky joints, and IBS. I also have immediate family members with similar symptoms -- and many of the symptoms of celiac disease overlap with "candida overgrowth", fibromyalgia, and lupus.

So now, here's my theory: rosacea *is* caused by SIBO. When you take antibiotics and kill off the bacteria, the rosacea will disappear for a while. But the reason it returns, and why SIBO was able to appear in the first place, is because gluten destroys your intestinal villi and their ability to absorb nutrients/keep things working as they should.

Another thing that I've read is that a gluten intolerance can lie dormant and then suddenly appear after food poisoning or a traumatic/stressful event. My rosacea/IBS came seemingly out of nowhere after I had a bad case of food poisoning around the age of 13/14. I now believe that a lifelong gluten intolerance destroyed my own villi and then allowed for SIBO to propagate.

After coming up with all of this I figured that I should put my theory to the test. I've been gluten free for 5 weeks now and can honestly say I've never felt better. I have noticed that a lot of the issues with IBS I had have started to go away: I'm no longer nauseous in the morning and I have a lot less gas. Although my permanent redness has yet to really disappear, my face no longer gets a deep flush when doing things like taking a shower. I also have more energy, don't feel fatigued, and am just generally happy with life. I've read through a number of celiac websites and learned that it can take months/years for your villi to return and intestines to get back in working order. But so far, I'm seeing things improve. And my guess is that over time the permanent redness will start to dissipate as well (it looks like it did for the author of that Gluten-Free Girl blog).

Anyways, I just felt like sharing. If my post piques your curiosity, do some reading on lupus and gluten intolerance -- there seems to be some overlap there.

[MissD]

TBH the girl's face in the pics look the same both before and after.

If you've been diagnosed with celiac disease then I don't doubt that going gluten free possibly could help with rosacea symptoms too but it is not the cause. Many of us do not have a gluten intolerance, yet here we are.

[thatguy]

TBH the girl's face in the pics look the same both before and after.

If you've been diagnosed with celiac disease then I don't doubt that going gluten free possibly could help with rosacea symptoms too but it is not the cause. Many of us do not have a gluten intolerance, yet here we are.
I had a blood test for celiac disease earlier this year that turned up negative. I have read, however, that it's still possible to have an intolerance to gluten without officially being "celiac" (don't ask me how that works). Considering how prevalent gluten is (from food to shampoo), it wouldn't really surprise me if it was a cause.

Anyway, I'm just throwing information about my own experience out there.

[Yvette]

Hi -

I don't have Celiac disease but did test positive to one of the four panels for Celiac. The panel showed I have sensitivity to gluten but not the disease. The GI Dr. I went who did a lovely colonoscopy and endoscopy on me said every thing was "normal". He said I didn't have to go gluten free as I don't have the disease. I do try to have less gluten (which I do find beneficial for my symptoms) though when I do I take a gluten supplement called Glutenease and also digestive enzymes.

I do think many of us Rosacean's have digestive and allergy/sinus issues. I think our immune system may be compromised.

Regards,

Yvette

[RedFaced]

Very interesting. I posted on this a a little while ago, there was a girl who was new to the forum who had IBS and was also diagnosed with Rosacea.

I can without question say that when my Rosacea is bad my digestion and bowels act up. I think it all ties in somehow and I also think that underlying stress/anxiety whether conscious or subconscious plays a big role as I have read several stories and references to Rosacea and IBS being triggered by a traumatic event and even being brought out of periods of remission (sometimes years of remission) after another traumatic/stressful event.

Also, the fact that 99.9% of Rosacea sufferers claim stress/anxiety to be one of their worst or biggest triggers. Research suggests that stress can bring on or worsen certain symptoms or diseases. It is a fact that stress/anxitey causes physical, mental, and emotional responsess, raises cortisol and suppresses the immune system which I believe also contributes largely to the presence and progression of the Rosacea Disease.

There has been several refernces to candida and Rosacea, so I for one can understand what you're saying...candida/sibo, bowels/digestion, underlying stress, are all contributing factors to the cause and the progression of this disease imo.

The images of the lady do look the same though imo.

[Yvette]

Hi RedFaced,

You are right on the money - IBS and digestion issues for sure make my Rosacea flare big time. I will always have a bit of a digestion issue since I have the gluten allergy and that coupled with other Rosacea stressors it makes it hard for my skin to stay clear. Part of me wants to go gluten free, but on the other hand, I know it would be really tough!! I have kids too and we go out for pizza or treats sometimes and it would be hard not to participate. I do eat really healthy most times (ie. salads, veggies, and gluten free when I can which is usually breakfast and lunch).

Many thanks for your feedback. If we all could join forces we could put together all the ailments we suffer we would have more knowlege than most folks in the medical field diagnosing and treating Rosacea. But awe, we don't have our doctorates (atleast I don't)!

Cheers and have a good night,
Yvette

[thatguy]

I started taking multi-vitamins containing calcium, magnesium, zinc, and vitamin D about a week ago (my joints have been cracking and I figured that having celiac/gluten intolerance has led to malabsorption) and my skin is noticeably better. The permanent redness on my nose and cheeks has been improving. Before it was a solid patch of redness, now it looks blotchier (which, I think, is a positive sign). On my nose the redness has been reduced by about 50%.

I also came across this post (http://www.celiac.com/blogs/43/Celiac-Makes-Strange-Bedfellows.html) today:
The Merc Manual states that the dermatitis associated with Celiac disease is due to the lack of zinc. I use a diaper cream with zinc added for a topical application and some added zinc in my diet choices. It comes as a result of ingesting gluten, but it may be in something you have put on you rather than in you. The skin is also a digestive organ. Good Luck, Yvonne
The celiac-zinc connection may explain why some people on this forum have had so much success with those zinc-based creams. I'm also starting to think rosacea has a lot in common with yeast diaper rash (http://www.emedicinehealth.com/yeast_infection_diaper_rash/article_em.htm).

Edit: I'm going to try using a zinc-oxide cream on my face (it's used to treat diaper rash) to see if it helps.

Edit #2: Balmex Zinc Oxide Diaper Rash Cream looks like it should do the trick. It's got aloe and vitamin E, and is said to be good for sun burns. I will let you guys know how things go.

[thatguy]

I just found a study from 2008 titled "Zinc sulfate in the treatment of rosacea: a randomized, controlled trial." Check out the attached file if you want to read through it.

They found that it helped in the treatment of rosacea, but aren't sure why. Interesting stuff.

Edit: They were taking 100mg capsules three times per day. The capsules I take only contain 5mg. That seems kind of odd to me.

[thatguy]

Here's another rosacea study using zinc:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00395226

Use of zinc dietary supplement > 25 mg per day during the 3 months prior to enrollment ( Most patients taking multivitamins with Zinc, often 15 mg per day, will not be excluded, whereas most patients taking additional Zinc supplements, often 25-50 mg per day or more will be excluded.)

It's ongoing, but they use 220 mg. Most multivitamins (including mine) only have 15 mg. Does anyone know how safe these dosage levels are?

[thatguy]

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/113/4/855.pdf

"It is possible that impaired carbohydrate digestion (reflected in disaccharidase activity) and even defective lipid absorption (reflected in reductase activity) may contribute to the poor nutrition and diarrhea of zinc deficiency."

[thatguy]

Here's a thought: what if rosacea is caused by a zinc deficiency?

For the people with an allergy to gluten and IBS-type symptoms (like myself), maybe their bodies aren't absorbing enough zinc, which leads to rosacea. For the others who have rosacea but don't have an allergy to gluten, maybe they just aren't getting enough zinc in their diet? Just a thought...

[thatguy]

Here's a study from 1909 (!):

"Lupus erythematosus apparently cured by Zinc Ionization"

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2046930

Here's a photo of Lupus erythematosus (http://www.chennaiclassic.com/adpics/4a160f617111ec6c609292d3e.gif). Looks quite similar to rosacea, in my opinion.

[thatguy]

I'm now reading up on zinc deficiency (http://www.ctds.info/zinc1.html). Celiac disease can be a cause according to this (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7988065?dopt=Abstract).

And if I'm right, some more info (http://ods.od.nih.gov/FactSheets/Zinc.asp#h10) on who might be at risk:
People with gastrointestinal and other diseases
Gastrointestinal surgery and digestive disorders (such as ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s disease, and short bowel syndrome) can decrease zinc absorption and increase endogenous zinc losses primarily from the gastrointestinal tract and, to a lesser extent, from the kidney [2,23,32,33]. Other diseases associated with zinc deficiency include malabsorption syndrome, chronic liver disease, chronic renal disease, sickle cell disease, diabetes, malignancy, and other chronic illnesses [34]. Chronic diarrhea also leads to excessive loss of zinc [21].

Vegetarians
The bioavailability of zinc from vegetarian diets is lower than from non-vegetarian diets because vegetarians do not eat meat, which is high in bioavailable zinc and may enhance zinc absorption. In addition, vegetarians typically eat high levels of legumes and whole grains, which contain phytates that bind zinc and inhibit its absorption [28,35].

Vegetarians sometimes require as much as 50% more of the RDA for zinc than non-vegetarians [2]. In addition, they might benefit from using certain food preparation techniques that reduce the binding of zinc by phytates and increase its bioavailability. Techniques to increase zinc bioavailability include soaking beans, grains, and seeds in water for several hours before cooking them and allowing them to sit after soaking until sprouts form [35]. Vegetarians can also increase their zinc intake by consuming more leavened grain products (such as bread) than unleavened products (such as crackers) because leavening partially breaks down the phytate; thus, the body absorbs more zinc from leavened grains than unleavened grains.

Pregnant and lactating women
Pregnant women, particularly those starting their pregnancy with marginal zinc status, are at increased risk of becoming zinc insufficient due, in part, to high fetal requirements for zinc [36]. Lactation can also deplete maternal zinc stores [37]. For these reasons, the RDA for zinc is higher for pregnant and lactating women than for other women (see Table 1) [2].

Older infants who are exclusively breastfed
Breast milk provides sufficient zinc (2 mg/day) for the first 4–6 months of life but does not provide recommended amounts of zinc for infants aged 7–12 months, who need 3 mg/day [2,30]. In addition to breast milk, infants aged 7–12 months should consume age-appropriate foods or formula containing zinc [2]. Zinc supplementation has improved the growth rate in some children who demonstrate mild-to-moderate growth failure and who have a zinc deficiency [21,38].

People with sickle cell disease
Results from a large cross-sectional survey suggest that 44% of children with sickle cell disease have a low plasma zinc concentration [39], possibly due to increased nutrient requirements and/or poor nutritional status [40]. Zinc deficiency also affects approximately 60%–70% of adults with sickle cell disease [41]. Zinc supplementation has been shown to improve growth in children with sickle cell disease [40].

Alcoholics
Approximately 30%–50% of alcoholics have low zinc status because ethanol consumption decreases intestinal absorption of zinc and increases urinary zinc excretion [41]. In addition, the variety and amount of food consumed by many alcoholics is limited, leading to inadequate zinc intake [2,43,44].

[Yvette]

Hi thatguy,

Thank you for all your information and links - they are very informative.

Regards,

Yvette

[thatguy]

No problem.

By the way, that Zongzhou Medical Cream (http://oscommerce.rosaceans.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=28) is 7.1% zinc oxide. You can find diaper rash cream that's around 10% or higher. My guess is that the diaper rash cream would work just as well; I'm going to try it out today.

[thatguy]

This site (http://www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com/zinc-for-acne.html) doesn't look terribly legit but they talk about zinc deficiency and acne/rosacea:

In the recent years, it has been found that acne and Rosacea are tightly linked to zinc deficiency. Zinc is one of the most important minerals in the body. It helps in many of your bodily processes such as cell growth and reproduction, wound healing, hormone regulation, protein metabolism, free radical protection, reproduction, and many others.

I've taken 50 mg of zinc gluconate (not zinc sulfate as was used in those studies) and put some zinc oxide on my face. I'm planning to take at least 100 mg of it everyday. I'll keep you guys posted. I'll also put up before/after photos in a few days.

This French study (http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16752110) says zinc might help treat antibiotic resistant acne.

[thatguy]

Here's a genetic condition called Acrodermatitis enteropathica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrodermatitis_enteropathica) that causes a zinc deficiency.

[thatguy]

From Zinc deficiency and supplementation in children and adolescents (http://www.uptodate.com/patients/content/topic.do?topicKey=~ZpmyXa0zDWeRlA):
Approximately 10 to 40 percent of dietary zinc is absorbed in the small bowel; absorption is inhibited by the presence of phytates and fiber in the diet that bind to zinc, as well as dietary iron and cadmium [5]. Nonetheless, a randomized trial showed that standard iron supplements did not significantly interfere with zinc absorption or reduce zinc levels in healthy breastfed infants [6]. Approximately 0.5 to 1.0 mg/day is secreted in the biliary tract and excreted in the stool.
If you have SIBO from food poisoning or SIBO induced by a gluten intolerance, it might make sense that zinc wouldn't be absorbed from the small bowel.

Also, kind of related but I just remembered that when I was a kid I used to get a really bad rash behind my knees (eczema?) that my parents treated with Penaten cream (zinc oxide).

[JJC]

Hi thatguy -

I was wondering if your experiment with zinc supplements did anything for your rosacea.

Or if anyone else has done this experiment (either oral or topical), please let me know your results.

Thanks,
JJC

[JJC]

I came across this site which you should be aware of if you add zinc supplements to your diet:
http://www.3fatchicks.com/do-zinc-supplements-have-any-dangerous-side-effects/

The section of interest on that site is this:

How Much Is Too Much Zinc?
In order to achieve 8 mg or 11 mg of zinc per day, you actually need to consume more than that because your body absorbs approximately 20%-40% of the zinc it digests. It is safe to take zinc supplements with an approximate 40 mg - 50 mg zinc content on a daily basis. Do not exceed that amount unless you have consulted a physician! If you consume 100 mg - 500 mg per day, you will experience serious side effects. The longer you “overdose” on zinc, the worse your side effects will be.

I found similar information elsewhere on the web, so maybe what it says is to be trusted. If you do experiments on yourself, you might want to limit the zinc dosage, or keep the duration of the experiment somewhat short.

JJC