had 2nd v-beam today

[paperbag]

same power of 7 joules but much more purpura...not sure why. my only guess is I think he did more pulses.

anyway, i'm hiding at home again scared at how I look. I didn't fall asleep until 5am this morning I'm so scared.

i had to cancel a therapist appointment, not getting my mail, and not mailing letters that need to be mailed :-(

god....how pathetic am i.....

if anyone has just had a v-beam and wants to talk for support via e-mail, please don't hesitate to reply.

paperbag

[Dahon]

I get vbeam treatments for my birthmark at 10 joules. Put sunscreen on it and keep it moist with moisturizer.

[phlika29]

It might be worth getting them to turn it down to six next time. When I have it on six I still get purpura in most of the places that get hit and yet it fades relatively quickly with less swelling,etc. (obviously different machines vary).

As it is then you just have to ride it out. Watch some movies, read some books, look on the internetyes:

[Melissa W]

Hi Joe hi:
Don't stress. It is absolutely normal to look awful after Vbeam (for me anyway LOL) and I just relax, catch up on reading and movies and make lots of popcorn grin: I look at it as a type of minivacation with myself. And you will heal so do not get crazy stressed. Remember you healed just great from the first VBeam and you will from this one as well. Just be patient!

Best wishes,
Melissa

[paperbag]

hi everyone

thanks for replying.

i always worry...i can't stop it.

the first v-beam was much different in response. It started off slightly bruised, then actually looked almost completely cleared after a week, then gradually got redder again, then gradually faded.

this time the bruise is darker purple in color. no scabbing, but a darker color bruise.

7 joules is a good setting for me. i have tried 9 before and was purple for a month...not red or pink but really purple.

i don't know why it is more bruised this time, except as i mentioned last time the doctor did 4 zaps instead of 3.

all the areas i wanted treated were treated, so that is good.

my main concern is from the previous 2 v-beams i had with another doctor. i switched doctors because the first doctor really bruised me to the point of scabbing. and he had his physician assistant doing the laser. my main worry is that she wasn't trained enough, use too much power. I dunno. I am really worried about 3 small circles of redness that may be from the v-beam that weren't there before. that is, permanent circular indentations in the skin.

this is so sad, because when i started off....all I had was one main spider vein in my scar, which was readily visible, and some very faint spider veins running along the side of the scar. those didn't even bother me, just the big spider vein in the scar. these were discrete, linear veins. now where they have been treated is diffuse red. i just don't understand what is going on. i have areas of redness that weren't even red before the v-beam that i'm now having to treat with the v-beam. and i gave the last treatment 7 weeks to fade, so I don't think it's residual v-beam redness, although it could be.

[chris b]

hi everyone

thanks for replying.

i always worry...i can't stop it.

the first v-beam was much different in response. It started off slightly bruised, then actually looked almost completely cleared after a week, then gradually got redder again, then gradually faded.

this time the bruise is darker purple in color. no scabbing, but a darker color bruise.

7 joules is a good setting for me. i have tried 9 before and was purple for a month...not red or pink but really purple.

i don't know why it is more bruised this time, except as i mentioned last time the doctor did 4 zaps instead of 3.

all the areas i wanted treated were treated, so that is good.

my main concern is from the previous 2 v-beams i had with another doctor. i switched doctors because the first doctor really bruised me to the point of scabbing. and he had his physician assistant doing the laser. my main worry is that she wasn't trained enough, use too much power. I dunno. I am really worried about 3 small circles of redness that may be from the v-beam that weren't there before. that is, permanent circular indentations in the skin.

this is so sad, because when i started off....all I had was one main spider vein in my scar, which was readily visible, and some very faint spider veins running along the side of the scar. those didn't even bother me, just the big spider vein in the scar. these were discrete, linear veins. now where they have been treated is diffuse red. i just don't understand what is going on. i have areas of redness that weren't even red before the v-beam that i'm now having to treat with the v-beam. and i gave the last treatment 7 weeks to fade, so I don't think it's residual v-beam redness, although it could be.

Hi Paperbag,

Did you have the v-beam treatments to help with rosacea?

I am interested in getting some v-beam treatments to minimize the redness from rosacea. If so, Do you know whick type of v-beam was used? and did you notice the treatments helping reduce the redness? From all the things I have read on people who had v-beam treatments, most of them report swelling or bruising after, but it always goes away after a while. Hope you heal fast.

[akamaimama]

Hi Paperbag...
I can completely relate to your fears!
I had my first vbeam yesterday for rosacea/redness. The doctor treated the entire face, though most of my redness is concentrated in the cheek area. I don't know what setting she used, though it was a Candela Vbeam machine. I ended up with about 15 dark purple/red bruises, each the size of a pencil eraser, all over different areas of my face.
Strangely, the darkest ones are on my lower cheekline, which isn't red at all.
I'll be thinking good thoughts for you as I hope to heal quickly myself!
I'm applying the arnica gel three times a day and trying to keep moist in this crazy, drying NY winter weather.
Good luck!
nell

[paperbag]

chris b: I had the VBeam for treatment of a red scar, but I use this forum because it is very supportive, and I have a hard time finding a good scar forum. Also, a lot of people here use Vbeam, and this is what I use. I've done it many times in the past. Recently I've had 4 Vbeams and am still red. Two with a previous doctor and two with a new doctor. The new doctor seems to help more, but it's still red. What I'm worried about are the small indentation created by the first doctor. They look like small holes from the Vbeam head piece. I know the Vbeam is flattening the raised part of my scar, which is good, but it's indenting the level parts. The bruising has gone away after 1 week. Now again it's another waiting 2 months to see if anything fades.

akamaiamama: I totally understand what you mean. It's confusing why doctors use the V-beam on parts that don't even bother you. I try to go over with the doctor beforehand with a mirror where I want treatment, but it really scares me because I'm afraid of doctors. It's like they see things you don't, and then it just creates more problems for you because you have more spots to cover, when you didn't even worry about those places in the first place.

To be honest, I don't think arnica gel or vitamin K or anything makes these spots heal faster. I think it is a waste of your money. I've tried arnica and vitamin K and really saw no difference, and was frustrated I wasted the time and money. I've also been told my laser doctors that they don't recommend those, and they think the only reason for those creams is to make money for the companies who make them. The only thing I can suggest immediately post operation is ice to reduce swelling. Have you tried using a humidifier to keep your skin moist?

anyway, I greatly appreciate that I am in your thoughts. that was very kind of you. this scar has really ruined my life and I appreciate any kindnesses.

I am basically back to where I was before the second V-beam with the new doc. Now I just have to wait another 5-7 WEEKS alone in my room by myself to see any results. fun.

[phlika29]

Well I think you need to get out of that room of yours. By isolating yourself you run the risk of making things seem worse than they are. My advice would be to just go out, go see some friends, a movie, anything really.

If you are worried about going out before the marks fade then perhaps give it another week or so but really no one is going to comment and if they do so what, just tell them what you had done. Most people are just interested and will commiserate with you. Best of all you can scare small children out shopping with their parentswoot:

[paperbag]

....you don't know where I'm coming from.

[phlika29]

Well I've had pdl induced pupura a number of times recently so I maybe I do. I believe my advice is still good, dont shut yourself away from the world.

[paperbag]

again, you know very little about me, you don't know where i've been, so you don't know where i'm coming from.

[hozer2k]

Is purpula v-beam better than if you don't bruise? I had read you get best results when you bruise, but my doc said that it is not necessary with the latest equip. I had two v-beams with him, neither of which really even made me that read...and they didn't help at all. I am wondering if a purpula induced v-beam would be better for diffuse redness?

[paperbag]

hozer2k,

I still think the best answer is the link found by man_from_mars.

http://www.bu.edu/cme/modules/cutaneous_lasers/techNotes.html

This is a continuing medical education course for doctors about dermatologic lasers. It has several sections. Section II is specifically vascular lasers. It is giving by Dr. Thomas Rohrer, who works at SkinCare Physicians of Chestnut Hill, one of the top dermatological clinics in the country.

Purpura is just a fancy term for bruising. Bruising comes from broken blood vessels. If the laser breaks the blood vessel, blood spills out, causing bruising. If the laser gently heats the blood vessel, it coagulates, and no blood spills out, no bruising.

This was the idea behind the newer lasers. If you heat the blood vessel fast, using a common setting of 1.5 milliseconds, all the energy of the laser is delivered in 1.5ms, which heats up the vessel so fast it explodes.

The newer V-beam lasers allow you to tune the pulse duration, so you can have longer pulse durations (pulse widths), up to 40 milliseconds. The energy is thus delivered to the vessel over a longer time, so the vessel doesn't heat up so fast, and it doesn't explode, thus no bruising.

While this is the point of the lecture, I've been to some very famous laser doctors, including Dr. Rohrer himself last May, and he still used purpuric settings on me. I honestly don't know what is going on with this new emphasis on no purpura/no bruising. Dr. Rohrer is a very nice guy so it is really confusing. He's one of the nicest doctors I've ever met.

I currently see another expert on lasers, Dr. Jerome Garden in Chicago, and he uses the same V-Beam Perfecta laser, that theoretically could do 40 millisecond pulses, and he still uses the 1.5ms purpuric setting, just like Dr. Rohrer did.

My opinion is, you really don't know if you've hit the blood vessel unless you have some sign, which is the bruising. Then you know you've hit something. Without bruising you don't know. Now, I should add a caveat that Dr. Rohrer makes in the lecture about seeing some kind of transient purpura using the non-purpuric settings that lets them know they hit the blood vessel. So maybe this is the future of V-beam.

But as for now, it seems to me like the experts are still using purpuric settings. I base on this on my experience with Dr. Roher and Dr. Garden, who are two of the most well known experts on lasers for dermatology.

[hozer2k]

Thanks!

I was unaware of this link and it is very informative. This tends to agree with some studies I have read that shorter wavelengths are recommended for tiny vessels (i.e. diffuse redness). I noticed he mentioned that he treated some spots with purpura still.

There is also a realistic economic effect that he mentioned that is related to efficacy. If you use a longer duration it seems that you will not get purpura but that you are not as effective. Therefore, you are not likely to get repeat business and perhaps less word of mouth advertisement. HOWEVER, it still seems that for the vessels invisible to the naked eye that purpura treatment *might* be better? He suggests that multiple treatments will mitigate this, but I am a bit skeptical there.

One thing I did note was that on slides 58/59 he states the texture is "much much improved". I have been hearing this for a long time with IPL, V-beam, etc. but never witnessed it myself....even though they kept saying how much improved the texture was. I look at slides 58/59 and do not really see improvement, but rather different lighting. I sometimes think they don't really have a keen eye to these things. Anyway..just a side issue. Either way, this is very informative. Thanks!

[paperbag]

oh, what I think he was saying wasn't really economics...but actually if one were skeptical one could interpret it that way.

my interpretation is that he was saying it's hard to get people to come back and go through purpuric treatments. it's easier to get them to come back if there is no down time. and the best treatment is the one that the patient actually uses.

so it might be better for the patient since they will actually use the non-bruising treatments, but are too afraid of the bruising treatments to go back. so in the long run it is more effective to do non-bruising because they patient will do those, as opposed to bruising treatments, which s/he won't do.

then again like you said, maybe there is money in it. probably always is. SkinCare Physicians of Chestnut Hill is NOT cheap. they are a very high end place. you pay to see the best dermatologists in the country...trained at Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, etc.. I just don't think Dr. Rohrer is greedy. He is really a great guy.

[hozer2k]

Those are some good points. I was not referring to this doctor, but more of the overall evolution and laser manufacturers as well.

Really my point was not of one being greedy, but rather of efficacy. What I fear is that doctors are not trained to treat at higher wavelengths to avoid purpura, BUT will this be effective as a purpura inducing treatment?

For patients who just started their treatments and for many average type patients, this may be great. BUT what happens when you get a resistant patient? Does the doc know and SHOULD you then go for a purpura treatment?

I have read of some people getting good results with purpura treatments and claim that only purpura treatments did them any good. That is why I am particularly curious about this. I have done about 30 IPL over 10 years with some help, but overall I am not satisfied. For me, its better to get it over with than to mess around for the next 20 years. But, I don't know if that is the answer anyway...just getting into it really. I will try to find out what my doc used on me, but it was definately not a purpura treatment and it definately did not help. I guess the real question is if the patient does not see results from a 10ms duration, will not never see a result...or is it possible to go to a 1, 2, or 3ms duration and have a result, even if purpura is induced?

[paperbag]

hozer2k, I think you are getting the technical jargon mixed up. This isn't a question of V-beam wavelengths. All V-beams use 595nm light.

Purpuric or non-purpuric comes from two things

1 fluence = energy = joules/cm2

2 pulse duration = milliseconds

really in the end, purpuric is more "effective" in the sense of destroying the blood vessel with certainty, because you are exploding the blood vessel. Without purpura, you are coagulating the blood vessel. It may collapse and be dissolved, it may not, it may re-open, but with purpura, you know for sure it is blown away.

However, I just want to re-state, what is "effective" is what people will do. If they don't want to do purpuric, then it's 0% effective.

I think you are right on, though, in that if you have done non-purpuric and don't see any results, then purpuric is the next step.

man...30 IPL's? do you know that IPL is NOT a laser? It is light of many different wave lengths. V-beam is a laser, which is 1 wavelength, 595nm.

[hozer2k]

Sorry, I was haste in my writing...but I am very clear that V-beam is a narrow band wavelength and cannot be adjusted. I ended up addressing it later, but what I meant to say was duration and not wavelength.

This is part of the issue with IPL that I have. It seems less focused and according to the presenter here, the longer wavelengths penetrate deeper. But if you have visible diffuse redness is this really what you want? My doctor said that V-beam is the best thing for my case, but he stopped short of anything other than very slight redness (if any) after treatment.

I also get the correlation between fluence and duration and how it relates to purpura. And I tend to think, as I have some time, that I may need to try a purpura inducing treatment.

A few things have held me back:

1. I am comfortable with IPL and have had "some" results. One problem with my prior treatments was that they used a numbing cream and I have noticed that it constricted vessels. I told them I would prefer not to use it, but they insisted. However, I recently thought about going for more but with someone else. They stated they do not use numbing cream because it can constrict vessels. So it got me immediately thinking this could be a reason for my relatively poor results.

2. Some physicians are now advocating less energy so as to not aggravate the condition. However, I am not sure if that is really applicable here if you are going to directly destroy the vessels.

3. Obviously a purpura treatment would suck. I am not sure how I would deal with the downtime to be honest. My thought is to do a small section (1"x1") to see if even had a positive effect. If so, couldn't I just move forward from there?

Thanks for the help, this has been very informative so far.

[hozer2k]

Just realized there is a ton of good info dealing with these issues. I am not too knowledgeable about the V-Beam and alot of my info needs to be updated since its years, if not over a decade old...haha. That being said, I don't want to divert this thread any further.

Best of luck with your healing. It's a rough time and a rough thing to go through. If it makes you feel any better, I noticed you think your problems may be worse or caused by the V-Beam in the first place. I had CO2 laser resurfacing which turned pretty darn good skin (in retrospect), into a red, blotchy, scaly mess. It took me a decade, yes...a damn decade, to get things back to a respectable level. I had a LOT of times where I was very upset with the doctor and my decision. But I have just had to deal with my reality and do my best to make it better. It's gotten better little by little by little until I am fairly happy...but still looking to get back to where I should be if it wasn't for that one decision I made as a young man looking for perfection. I guess that is just what we call life. In hindsight, it has made me stronger in some areas and it is still an interesting challenge....but yeah, it pretty much still sucks! haha. Good luck.

[phlika29]

again, you know very little about me, you don't know where i've been, so you don't know where i'm coming from.

Well that is the same for everyone on the forum. We come here for support and advice to help us cope with what can be a debilitating condition and that was what I was giving. I dont think anyone would advise any different from what I have said.

[Melissa W]

Hi Joe,

Sarah did give you good advice and what she said is true. We really don't know anyone here but are here for support and info and do the best we can. Everyone has a complicated life and other stuff going on and nothing is really in black and white if you know what I mean. In any case you must realize that she meant no offense and only wanted to help and gave the advice she herself follows. Which is good advice because regardless of what is going on if you don't get out and join life it will pass you by.

Best wishes,
Melissa

[paperbag]

When we honestly ask ourselves which person in our lives means the most us, we often find that it is those who, instead of giving much advice, solutions, or cures, have chosen rather to share our pain and touch our wounds with a gentle and tender hand. The friend who can be silent with us in a moment of despair or confusion, who can stay with us in an hour of grief and bereavement, who can tolerate not knowing, not curing, not healing and face with us the reality of our powerlessness, that is a friend who cares.
Henri Nouwen

[Lookout]

Paperbag love the poem!

I was just reading this thread and thought I would share my pupuric experience so far. I had my 5th VBeam last Friday... I told her no more "fooling" around with my rosacea....I only wanted my cheeks treated and I wanted each and every pulse to result in a purple bruise! So that's exactly what happened....every pulse (over 300) are black/purple..... right next to the other...no spaces....a solid mass of purple..... Let me tell you it is quite a sight!

But I felt that after doing 4 VBeams and only having say 10 bruises spread out over my entire face just wasn't doing any good for me. I gave it a good go....4tx's is alot in expense, downtime and of course sooooo disappointing that one sees very little if any improvement in redness and skin reactivity.

Right now I still look frightening....the bruises have changed color from black/purple to super bright DARK red with a yellowing color all around the area treated.

I decided to do this based on some of those studies others posted about better results with bruising.

I will post on my results with this in the next several weeks as it looks to me I may need at least that long to see if it helped me at all. hi:

[phlika29]

Paperbag

Is that your way of telling us to shut uplaugh: If we were all silent it would be a pretty empty forumwink1:

[paperbag]

wow...I admire your courage Lookout.

I can't imagine how hard it must be to be that bruised. I really hope the purpuric setting is what makes the difference for you. if you need any emotional support I'm here for you.

[hozer2k]

Thanks for this info Lookout. I had a couple V-beams with no result and no purpura or even redness. He used the Perfecta model.

I will be very curious of your results since I may go down this same path. Boy that downtime has got to suck. Do you work now? I cant imagine that? Also, it treats spots in a circle so there will be "gaps" of areas that are not treated. So I guess this means you will need multiple treatments if this works....ugggh what a frightening thought. Hope the healing goes well.

[Melissa W]

Darlene,
My fingers are crossed for you. yes:
Good results on the way!

[Melissa W]

When we honestly ask ourselves which person in our lives means the most us, we often find that it is those who, instead of giving much advice, solutions, or cures, have chosen rather to share our pain and touch our wounds with a gentle and tender hand. The friend who can be silent with us in a moment of despair or confusion, who can stay with us in an hour of grief and bereavement, who can tolerate not knowing, not curing, not healing and face with us the reality of our powerlessness, that is a friend who cares.
Henri Nouwen

Great poem Joe but not sure how much more we can do. We are here for support and we listen and actually do offer advice when we can as that is what the RF is all about. I am all for being there for the person/people I care about in my life as well as sharing in their pain as well as happiness but truthfully this forum is also about sharing courage to go on in the face of adversity and make the best of the hand we are dealt in life.

"The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven"

John Milton, Paradise Lost

[Lookout]

Thanks for this info Lookout. I had a couple V-beams with no result and no purpura or even redness. He used the Perfecta model.

I will be very curious of your results since I may go down this same path. Boy that downtime has got to suck. Do you work now? I cant imagine that? Also, it treats spots in a circle so there will be "gaps" of areas that are not treated. So I guess this means you will need multiple treatments if this works....ugggh what a frightening thought. Hope the healing goes well.

Hello hozer2k,

I am being treated with the perecta also.....I know they say it won't bruise but that's not true....it's how you set it (joules/ms). Yes the downtime is really a bummer BUT if it works then I feel WELL worth it! I really have almost no gaps in treated areas...the tech or doc doing the treatments should be placing the laser slightly overlapping each pulse to get complete coverage and she did a very good job at this.....I would love to look in the mirror and see white areas instead of a solid mass of redness.....that would mean I finally broke thru!

I am a SAHM presently and my spouse works out of town so it is still difficult to manage doing everything around home and upkeep looking like this.....but again it's worth it to get better and wasting my time & money on 4 other VBeams where I had significant downtime also just stinks.....I will post when I can tell if it helped me or not.

Strange I know......but I am not and have not been feeling down about doing this extreme tx......I had come to a place where if VBeam isn't going to work for me that I need to move on....but to what? I have already done at least 15 or more IPL's and they just don't work IMO.....so maybe Yag? Hopefully I will not need to go there and this will be the ticket for me....that way I can just do small areas of my face at a time with the pupuric style and get the results I have been dreaming of.....I would love to just see a good deal of improvement.....that would be like a miracle blush:

Hey Melissa.....how are you?
Hey Paperbag.....thanks for your support.....and again love that poem!

Everyone play nicely nowhi:

[Melissa W]

Hey Darlene hi:
Can you remind me of your symptoms again? Is it flushing and burning?

[paperbag]

hey Lookout, I'm glad for you that you are not feeling down. I can understand that actually. You finally did it! You got to a point where you had nothing to lose.

and sometimes...

nothin' can be a real cool hand ;)

[phlika29]

Lookout hi:

I have been undergoing a similar treatment. The last but one time I had laser I was bruised over the whole of my right cheek (with gaps though). I find that yes the down time is annoying but it is so extreme that there is nothing to do but just carry on. I went back to work four days after the treatment. Each day I watched the bruises fade but it took many weeks for the red areas to finally disappear.

Two weeks ago I had it done again but this times focusing on just the top parts of my cheeks (roughly half the amount of bruises as before). I hold out much hope with these treatments that the permanent redness and dilated veins will begin to clear.

Good luck with your recovery.

[hozer2k]

If I did not have to face people, I would probably go for this in a heartbeat. But I must work, especially in this economy.

So does it make sense to do a size about 1x1" to see if there is improvement and then go from there? I could probably get by with that and not miss work. And if it does work, then I will just figure out some time.

My worst case would be to take a lot of time off of work and not have any result. That is what I need to avoid.

[phlika29]

I did a little trial area first to see if it would work and to try to see if the levels were correct.

I go out and about whilst at work, I have always found that once people get to look for a second and if necessary you give them a brief explanation it is not a problem. The best thing is to explain to as many people as possible what is going to happen before the treatment.

[hozer2k]

So in the trial area could you see a marked improvement? How did you ultimately determine that it was worth going through with larger areas?

Also, are we talking about truly a purple color here? I have seen some that are purple/black. Wow, that would be a rough go of it. But I am at the point where I want to take care of business so if thats what it takes.

[Lookout]

Hey Melissa.....Yes I have intense burning, flushing and permenant redness over my entire face. My skin is super reactive to just about everything (climate and all topicals)

Hozer2k, my bruises were black with some purple.....my husband was shocked when he saw me this time! He is out of town all week working and I told him over the phone last night that they are not purple anymore he interrupted me and said "they were never purple.....they were black"......I agreed and said well now they are super dark cherry red!! Think of the red color of lifesavers candyyes:

Phlika......you sneeky girl! I didn't know you were doing pupuric tx's toogrin:.....I have to say I have seen your photos and you look amazingly WHITE to me and I hope to one day look white and not RED anymore too.

I did a rather large area for this little experiment of mine.....as it is impossible to hide it......my skin feels abit dry or rough in some of the area.....I just keep vasaline on the area constantly for moisture and it doesn't cause problems for me. Phlika, did you experience any dry skin in the tx areas? I think it's normal so I am not concerned as I expect by next Friday I shouldn't look so beat up! and I hope by then I can put on a little foundation.

Darlenehi:

[Melissa W]

Speedy recovery Darlene!
This might do the trick for you and maybe one day I will take the purpuric plunge yes:
( that sounds like a song title grin:)

[paperbag]

if you are using vasline, why not use bacitracin? since you had so much done, be safe and use a petroleum jelly with an antibiotic in it. or if you can't get bacitracin, use polysporin.

[phlika29]

Lookout

Well as I have been seeing Dr Chu and having sub purpura treatments for the acne/seb derm I thought I might as well kill two birds with one stone as have her turn it up afterwards and go back overlaugh:.

Yes I do get dry crusty bits afterwards and this time alot of flaking (winter and all). I just use a light moisturiser, the only one I seem to be able to tolerate is Simple lotion. It does help the crusts to flake of easier if you keep them moisturised. Unfortunately years of flushing have let me with quite a few dilated veins and it is these I am trying to target the most.

Hozer

If you check out my photo thread and go to the last few pages then you can see my test area. What symptoms are you trying to treat?

[Lookout]

if you are using vasline, why not use bacitracin? since you had so much done, be safe and use a petroleum jelly with an antibiotic in it. or if you can't get bacitracin, use polysporin.

I have tried those in the past and found I reacted to them so I just do the vasaline as I have NO reaction whatsoever and after a tx I seem to react to everything for about 2wks or so.

Phlika.....do you have a link for that moisturizer you are using? I am always looking for anything to try that won't set off my skin....mineral oil has been the only thing I seem to not react to these days....but even if I only put a tiny on and blot it off with a cloth it doesn't work well under foundationwink1:

Edit: geez I am such a dunce sometimes....I just realized I have been spelling purpuric wrong in my posts! and signature!! Oops....me a bad spellerCry:

[Lookout]

Phlika......I tried finding it on the web and it's there but no ingredients listed would you mind posting those?

I wonder if this is available in Canada? If so I could have my spouse stop at the drug store before he comes home this weekend....otherwise I could order it online....but need to see the ingredients first to be sure I could even try it.

Thanks for your help!hi:

[hozer2k]

As far as moisurizers go, I really like the Toleriane facial fluide. You can even get it directly from amazon now. Gosh I hope that company does not go out of business.

Phlika, I suffer mainly from permanant redness with some flushing and blushing, but its mostly perm redness that is giving me a problem.

[phlika29]

The Simple lotion is nothing special but for some reason I can tolerate it. I will have a look at the ingredients and post them up tomorrow yes:. Dr Chu often recommends neutrogena and (eucerin if you have seb derm). I would wait a few weeks before trying anything new, you don't want to risk upsetting your face.

Hozer-well then I am not sure that purpura will be necessary. Have you tried other lasers/IPL?

[hozer2k]

Phlika,
I think I have had about 30 or IPL (maybe 20 or 25), I can't remember...with 5 or so docs/practioners. It has helped to some degree...maybe. I have had to V-beam treatments with the perfecta, using the cooling device, without result. But I don't know the energy level and duration. I had the doctors office send me my file so I can compare levels, but I don't have it yet. All I can say is that I did not even get red after the V-beam so I am guessing (and hoping) that he didnt use enough energy...and therefore leave the possibility of more energy/shorter duration being beneficial.
But you are saying I don't need purpura to treat perm redness? I don't know. However, I have been thinking about asking him do some spots at different levels/duration and monitor the spots. The treat at the setting that takes it almost up to purpura, but not quite. That way I could start treatment anytime.

[Lookout]

Thanks Phlika .....I appreciate you posting the ingredients when you get a chance.

Hozer, I react to toleriane facial fluid.

My main complaint is perm redness.....I did 4 Vbeams & experienced lot's of swelling, redness and long downtime after each tx with a few bruises (10-15) spread out over my entire face. It did nothing to improve the perm redness.....that is why I am doing the purpuric now to see what happens.....IPL just doesn't work for me on the perm redness did many of those (15 or more).....I would think VBeam is the best choice but maybe YAG......wink1:

[hozer2k]

I got my file and it says 7 J/cm^2, 10ms, 4 pulse. It was with the perfecta. So this seems consistent with a typical non-purpuric level of treatment. Should I request more energy and or a shorter duration? How would one discuss this with the doctor? Both treatments were the same although I mildly suggested that we amp it up on the second because I do not even have redness. It would seem there is some room to increase the settings without too much of any issue.

For those who had some bruising at 7 J, what was the pulse duration? At 10ms it wouldn't seem to bruise, but maybe at less than 5ms it would? Should I request something like a 7J with 5 ms?

[paperbag]

try 1.5ms, this is a common purpuric setting

[hozer2k]

I am thinking of stepping into it rather that going straight for 1.5ms. Suppose 5ms or 3ms works good for me, then there may not be a need to go to the full purpuric setting to see results. Just thinking out loud at this point.