beta-blockers like

[darkside]

Hi, does anyone knows a drug that could work as beta-blockers (for flushing) and that don't require prescription?


thanks in advance

[lakan]

Sorry, dont know. But if you really wan't a betablocker all you have to do is go to a doctor and teel im you want it, shouldn't be harder than that really. If you donät want to convince your docotr that you are gonna use it for rosacea just tell im you got a stage-fright or having problems being in the center of attention or something, that will easily get you a prescribtion. I don't know what country your in but generally betablockers is extremely easy to get.

[darkside]

hi, thanks for the advice :)))

I have read that there are a lot of collateral effects with beta blocker and then I would something lighter (a narutal product preferably).
I

[dallascowgirl]

I take the time release version of Atenolol ( Toprol XL 50) for a periodic
fast heart beat. It has never kept me from flushing that I have noticed. I took Atenolol for a year and it didn't even help with my heart beat. The Dr. just doesn't want that adrenalin hitting my heart. It may help some people who flush, and I wish I were that lucky. That would be kind of like killing two birds with one stone.

[Steve95301]

There aren't any non-prescription beta-blockers.

[Froggirl]

Sorry in advance for my spelling! I'm way too dependant on automatic spell checks!

Atenolol belongs to the selective class of betablockers, and so is less likely to cause side effects (such as cold hands and feet) than non selective ones like propronolol. I've tried them both and didn't notice much difference between them, i didn't find they helped my flushing to much but they do have the bonus of reducing anxiety in some situations (by block adrenelin), like when public speaking.

[darkside]

Good.. all bad news :)

thanks for the answers

Atenolol has been wonderful for me..especially for anxiety flushing and my daily evening flush. i have not had an evening flush since i began taking the beta-blocker.( three months) and it has allowed me to give speeches without the hot face and burning ears without this I would always turn red and hot. Before starting with atenelol i contemplated dropping out of my masters program due to the embarrassment of public speaking and now I look forward to my classes and speaking

[iVAN]

Guest, would you be so kind as to let me know what your doseage is
and if you suffer from negative side effects from the Atenolol.

Thanks.

[darkside]

good news :))

guest: no negative side effects ?

I take 25 mg and no negative side effects

[darkside]

no side effect? is it possibile practice sport?

thanks for the info guest :)


a question for the moderators: why have you moved here the post? we are now talking about betablockers but the topic isn't this.
bye :)

[Steve95301]

a question for the moderators: why have you moved here the post? we are now talking about betablockers but the topic isn't this.
bye :)

I'm not a moderator, but Atenolol is a prescription beta-blocker.

[darkside]

yes but my idea was not to talk about ateno. It was talking of a drug that could work as beta-blockers (for flushing) and that DONT'T require prescription ;)

[Artist]

The only thing I know of that is non-prescription and can curb blushing is meditation. It's easy, but you would have to learn how to do it correctly. It switches you from a sympathetic (fight or flight) state to parasympathetic (rest and digest) state. Sounds strange, but I was surprised to find that it does work. Problem is you have to do it a few times a day, or just before the social event or work or whatever makes you blush, and I somehow never find the time, so I take beta blockers (when not prego or breastfeeding).

Artist

[darkside]

hi Artist, thanks for the info :)

if I can, what type of meditation?

[Artist]

I don't know if there is a name for it, but I use the method described in the below link when i do it. I like it because I can do it anywhere. Just clear my mind and think of a word over and over again until my head is totally clear and I feel very light, mentally clear and re-charged, and very, very calm...ahhhh:

http://www.alternative-medicine.net/meditation/english.html

Not recommended while driving. he he he!

Cheers!

Artist

[Skywolf]

Meditation is easy but not. It trying to quite our brains. Repeating a word over and over is good, its called a mantra. There are mantras that are universal, the "Ohm" that work well, but it is a personal process. I find that picturing colors works for me, say like a green apple, or a red wagon, just mind pictures. but it helps the brain to focus on something else , then go still as we relax.
breathing is a key, and there are lots of techniques for this, but I find just breathing deep to a count to 5, releasing the breath to the same count, then being still for the same count, and doing that again will help . by breathing I mean a deep breath, let the stomach and diaphram expand rather that contract, dont suck in your gut as you breathe, a lot of us do that.

laura

[Artist]

Once, when I was first learning how to meditate, I said my mantra out loud. I used the number "one". So, I sat quietly and said "oooooone". My husband who was sitting nearby, answered "twoooooo" ha ha ha ha! I think the word to myself now instead of saying it out loud. he he he.

Artist

[mt6031]

I take the beta-blocker in the morning and have not flushed in three months. i exercise and work out inthe yard. I am able to sit in warm rooms and speak in front of large groups and my face and ears remain cool and not flushed. i had a class tonight in a hot library and gave a ten minute presentation with no warm feelings at all. atenolol has been a god send fro me..no more anxiety flushes and no more worries about turning all red.

[Froggirl]

I'd love to learn to mediate but since i haven't i'll stick with taking betablockers for now!

Before i had rosacea I took 40mg daily for 8 years for migrane prevention without any side effects at all, lately they do seem to make my circulation issues a little worse but nothing dramatic. So i just take 20mg occasionally, before big events or public speaking.

[Melissa W]

Hi,

This question is for Kate and anyone else who may know.

I have Raynaud's which means I have poor circulation, mainly in my fingers. This winter I developed a pretty bad case of chilblains which lasted a few months. I actually still have a few remnants of it on a couple of fingers even though it is 80 degrees farenheit outside!

Anyway, my question is this. Is it safe for me to take beta blockers for my flushing? I remember reading that clonidine (which I think is a beta blocker) is a no-no in people with Raynaud's because of the circulation issue. Is that true of all beta blockers?

Thanks for any insight.

Best wishes,
Melissa

[Froggirl]

Hi Melissa

Clonidine is in a different class than betablockers although it is used for similar things and, like you said, it's not recommended for people with Raynaurds. Betablockers can also make Raynauds worse but not always, it's possible that like me you might be able to take a selective type without too many issues.

Beta blockers do reduce the circulation to the hands and feet so it really would be something to watch, your chilblanes sounded really horrible. But on the other side of the coin some people have found major relief from their flushing from taking betablockers.

It's hard to weight it up though without knowling how much they could help you. For me they really don't greatly prevent or reduce my flushing so i only take them occasionally. And in doing that havn't noticed that they aggrivate my raynauds at all. If they helped my flushing as much as they do some peoples on here i would proably take them regardless, but i've never had anything as bad as chilblanes.

If you do try them selective betablockers like atenolol do effect the circulation much much less that non selective ones like propranolol. I find too that it's only winter when my circulation gets bad enough to be an issue. So if that's the case for you too than maybe you could give them a go once the weather warms up, as it might be the lest risky time for you to see what effect they have for you.

[Melissa W]

Hi Kate,

Thanks for your reply.
That's a great idea. I'll ask my derm about it at my next visit and since the weather is getting warm this is the perfect time to try it if I need to.

Best wishes,
Melissa

[lakan]

For me, beta-blockers do only work good if i take them occasionally. I tried to eat Inderal at a regular basis, every day a couple of months ago and as my Raynauds symptoms got worse, the help they provided for my flushing faded away the more i took them.

Now, they work very good again though and with minor side-effects if i only use them like once or twice every week or less.

[phlika29]

Iread an article the other day that said that propanalol is very good after a traumatic event. It supposidly minimises that risk of bad memories.

Sorry not very on topic

[Melissa W]

I wonder if we can take propanolol on a regular basis to forget the traumatic event that is rosacea! :lol:

[phlika29]

well I find it helps :D

[darkside]

hi I have just read that aspirin is used for rosacea o.O

It sounds strange but I'll try it..

[Froggirl]

Aspirin can work as it blocks one of the chemicals that can cause flushing and inflammation, so even if you still flush it can help it to be less intense. NSAID's also do the same thing. I've been meaning for ages to do a trial of taking a small dose of NSAIDs for a month and seeing what happens. As a bonus Dr Oz on Oprah recommended taking a baby aspirin everyday for everyone, as it massively reduces the risk of certain kinds of cancers. So that's a bonus!

His advice to avoid stomach upsets was to drink a warm glass of water after taking it, so that is dissolves quickly instead of sitting in the stomach too long.

I did a quick search to try and find an article about aspirin and rosacea but came across some good advice from Linda Sy on the web about some ways to reduce flushing, and a lot of it doesn't involve prescription meds. I've never heard about the b vitamin's possibly helping flushing before so might give that a go.

Unfortunately, flushing can be caused by a myriad of chemical mediators such as histamine, prostaglandins, serotonin, lysyl- bradykinins, acetaldehyde, to name a few.

Flushing can also be caused by neural mediators as controlled by the autonomic nervous system. It seems that some people have blood vessels that are hypersensitive due to increased beta-adrenergic receptors in the muscles of the blood vessels walls or increased catecholamines in the nerve endings.

Some oral meds that help control flushing, may be hard on the system for some people. Examples are betablockers such as Propanolol; alpha adrenergic antagonist such as clonidine. There are however, other OTC meds that are easier on the system such as: aspirin (blocks prostaglandin synthetase), antihistamines - ex. Chlor-trimeton which blocks H1 receptors; Cimetidine (Tagamet) which blocks H2 receptors. Pyridoxine (vit.B-6) has also been found to be helpful as a prophylaxis.

Here's a suggested regimen:
At bedtime: Take 1 baby aspirin; 1 chlor-trimeton(4 mg) and 1 tab of Tums (Calcium Carbonate , an antacid to offset the gastric irritating effect of the aspirin. In the AM: Take a B Complex vitamin that contains 50 mg. of B-6. Avoid one w/ Niacin (Niacinamide is fine) and 1 Tagamet (200 mg). During bouts of flushing, apply a cool (not cold) compress on face. Do deep breathing 10 times slowly.

[Melissa W]

Hi Kate,

Thanks for the information.
I would just be extra careful if anyone is on other supplements that thin the blood like flax, fish oil, etc. because that can add up. BTW the coated baby aspirin like Bayer is less likely to irritate your stomach.

Melissa

[darkside]

hi, aspirin is not a NSAID? I'm a little confused.. however, I have found that valerian alfa is used to reduce anxiety and tachycardia then it may work :)

[Melissa W]

Hi,
Yes. Aspirin is an NSAID. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory.

[Froggirl]

Sorry didn't mean to be confusing, Melissa is right, aspirin is a NSAID.

I guess i tend to think of it differently because i have a sensativity to salicytates (which is the key compound of aspirin) but am fine taking other kinds of NSAID (like naproxen). But which ever you take they all have the same action.

[darkside]

ok thx for the explanations :)

[flemmo]

I've been on beta blockers for a week now. How long should they take to help flushing? I'm so far seeing no difference. The only change I have noticed is sometimes my feet and fingers get hot and painful especially in bed at night My GP said beta blockers might give me cold feet and hands as they lower blood pressure, but I wasn't expecting pain! Unless this is some sort of rosacea thing - flushing feet and fingers :?

[phlika29]

What beta blocker are you on. I take propanerol and find that it just generally decreases my stress levels and therefore some of my flushes. It is sort of hard to tell though, its not a dramatic thing.

Beta blockers can make raynaulds worse and I find in the winter my fingers are colder and redder. This goes away once it watms up. Just an idea.

[Froggirl]

Flemmo, like Philka29 said, that sounds like Raynaud's, which is where the body overacts to cold. First the hands and feet get cold and there is reduced blood flow and they go pale, they can even go blue if it's bad enough, and then the body trieds to rewarm them and it overacts and sends way too much blood and they go red and swell and burn. So if your hands a feet are getting cold before they are getting red and painful than this is the most likely cause.

The same mechanism operates in other blood vessels, and is why topicals that cause blood vessel contriction aren't use to treat rosacea and flushing, because the end result will always be rebound dilation.

Raynauds is a really typical side effect of betablockers, and if your not seeing any good effects on your flushing by now, it might not be worth continuing. If you did want to keep trying them maybe halve your dose and see if it makes a difference to your handsand feet. What kind of betablocker are you? If it's a non selective type, like proponolol you might do better on a selective type, that affects circultation much less, like atenonol.

I think if the betablockers were going to dramtically help your flushing they would have by no, though i'm not 100% sure as I never found betablockers reduced my flushing, what they did help with, like Sarah said, is my stress levels and therefore flushing in really specific situation like public speaking or job interviews.

[flemmo]

Hi. I too I am taking propanerol. My hands and feet aren't bad anymore. Interesting about Raynauds as my hands, feet and nose are always cold - even in the summer. Maybe I've got that?
Still no change in the flushing. If anything my anxiety and flushing frequency has increased. Maybe Clonidine is a better option?

[Melissa W]

Hi Flemmo,

I know very little about this but when I tried clonidine it catapulted my Raynaud's into severe. Anyway, just wanted to let you know so you are cautious.

Best wishes,
Melissa

[flemmo]

we can't win can we?! I've got an appointment with a good G.P. next Friday so I'll discuss it with her then. Over the last 3-4 days I've been feeling pressure in the sinus area and around the eyes along with a flushed feeling. I am quite an anxious person anyway, much more since suffering with rosacea. I'm wondering if my blood pressure is a bit high?
Its tricky to know how many problems to bring up with the G.P. I don't want to seem like I'm a hypercondriac or just after some drugs!

[Melissa W]

I know what you mean!
I feel like my derm thinks I like to be on drugs!
Seriously, when I mentioned the beta blockers -he thought it was a bad idea as I don't weigh much and I don't have high blood pressure-it would make me dizzy he said
antidepressants- my derm said it would take the edge off my personality and we wouldn't like that (a liitle bit of edge off wouldn't be so bad :lol: )
etc....

So my derm thinks I'm a wannabe junkie or something LOL
But he also did Rx lots of other stuff ie singulair, solodyn, allegra, antihistamine. So I guess I'm on enough meds!!

Just not really sure they're doing any good. :(

[Froggirl]

I found the same thing as Melissa with clonidine, it gave me terrible raynauds, it even effected my face, it would go all numb and ice cold and painful and then it would flush terribly and my hands and feet were the same.

My doctor has been really great in letting me try anything that could possibly help (singulair being the latest) but clonidine is a much more serious drug than betablockers, with a much higher side effect profile. Then again many many people have found it has helped there flushing significantly...it's such a pity we can't find out what will and won't help us without trial and error...

I never had sinus problems before but in the last 12 months have required antibotics for sinues infections four times. And the inflammation from it makes my flushing so much worse, so this could be a real possibilty. That pressure feeling you describe is typical.

[Bonefish]

Might be a stupid question, but is zyrtec beta-blocker?

[Froggirl]

It is hard at first to get your head around all the different meds which are used off label for rosacea.

Zyrtec is a antihistamine so is a very different class of drugs to betablockers.