Which RLT/LLLT unit? [Archive]

Artist

10th December 2006, 11:01 PM

1 - Which LLLT unit do you use?

2 - Where did you buy it?

3 - What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit?

4 - How, and how often, do you use it?

5 - Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin?

6 - What benefit have you experienced?

7 - Tips or other comments.

Hi Twickle:

1) Red and near infrared combo single head lamp
2) acnelamp.com
3) build 8/10
4) 15 minutes in the morning before I get up, about 3 inches from my face. So, my nose is pretty close in order for my cheeks to be about 3 inches away.
5)Clean skin - before washing but in the am so there is nothing on it or whatever I applied the night before is all soaked in.
6)I can eat more foods and push more triggers. Almost two months now and, especially recently, skin is even smoother and softer, more even, less reactive after triggers like foods, washing, etc.
7)Patience is required. Takes several weeks to see big results.

Artist

Quench

11th December 2006, 09:34 AM

Can we also add the question

8 How much did it cost?

Peter

11th December 2006, 11:25 AM

1. Dermalux converted all red 6 fluorescent tube acne lamp. Have recently been experimenting with their all red LED unit.

2. Intercal (Dermalux).

3. Very good build quality. Remember tubes need replacing every 2 – 3 years and this is simple to do. Replaced my original 4 tubed lamp in 2004 with the newer 6 tubed version. Unit is fairly large and heavy so not really suited to traveling unless going by car. Their hand held LED unit comes in its own traveling case and is small / portable.

4. Used daily for 15 minutes usually in the morning. Built a special table which I lay underneath. As I have been using for so long now I can miss days or even a week with no deterioration in my condition.

5. Used it prior to washing or application of any topical. Just wiped away any obvious oil, grease etc.

6. Significant benefits since 1998 when used in combination initially with more conventional treatment. Removed redness, softened skin, removed inflammation and reduced flushing attacks. Made skin less sensitive. Probably the major contribution to my rosacea apparently going into remission.

7. Be patient and don’t expect miracles overnight. Take your time getting use to RLT and slowly build up your exposure to it over a couple of weeks. Try and keep the rest of your daily routine the same when starting i.e. don’t try anything else new at the same time e.g. drugs, topicals or foods. You need to ensure it becomes part of your daily routine otherwise you will not get the full benefit, however to do this does mean a lot of motivation. Try and use your lamp at round about the same time everyday so it becomes a matter of habit but don’t feel guilty if you do happen to miss the odd day. Get yourself as comfortable as possible so that you can relax and enjoy the experience. Try and visualize the red light having a positive effect and making you better. Pretty obvious but if you flush to fluorescent lighting etc don’t use the tubed lamp and go for LED. The tubed lamp does give out a small amount of heat so take time to workout the most suitable distance your face should be away from the unit. If you can, take a picture of your face before your start the treatment, so you can look back later to gauge your progress or ask a friend, partner or medical person to remember what your skin is like.
Some changes may be very subtle and might not be obvious unless you keep a constant check on your progress. I was told that my skin looked less red after a few weeks but I noticed myself how much softer my skin became. Remember as with any rosacea treatment there are never any guarantees that it will work for you but if you think it could help then only way to find out is to give it a try.

8. Fluorescent (6 tube) lamp £200 approx UK delivery. The hand held LED one I purchased recently was £280 with UK delivery.

Hope this helps someone.

Peter

Twickle Purple

11th December 2006, 04:58 PM

I have different types so I will post them individually.

1 - Which LLLT unit do you use?

LEDMAN handheld 96 LED unit

2 - Where did you buy it?

Online from the LEDMAN http://www.theledman.net/

3 - What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit?

It is simple in design: a plastic case the size of a deck of cards. I think it's pretty much indestructable with normal use.

4 - How, and how often, do you use it?

I hold it to the area I want to treat.
Everyday, in the evenings while reading. It's very portable.

5 - Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin?

Depends, I make no special effort one way or the other and have used it with clean skin and with cream (mixed with vaseline).

6 - What benefit have you experienced?

I am pale most often now. I still have little flushes everyday but they are narrowly defined, not diffuse, and my facial swelling, if it occurs, is very short lived. It also stops the facial pain that comes with, or independently of, the flushing.

7 - Tips or other comments.

The first few times these units warm up they will smell a bit. It's the 'burn-off' stage from fabrication I suppose. I have an all red, red+yellow and all yellow and these units heat up very quickly -- that dictates the length of time I use it. The heat is not from the LEDs per se, the manufacturer runs them hot to increase the brightness (which I'm not sure makes a difference). Heat's good when I am using these on areas other than my face though.

I both use it directly on my face (no cream) or hold it a few inches away (when wearing cream). I also use it on places that give me any ache or pain (hands, wrist, jawline, etc.) because it works as a pain reliever (this is there I find the heat feels good sometimes). I haven't used advil since I started with RLT.

8 - Cost

The exact cost depends on the colour, they're under $200 each.

porcorosso

12th December 2006, 07:48 AM

1 - Which LLLT unit do you use?
2 - Where did you buy it?

Mainly IowaDavid's, made of 6 large 660nm panels.
Recently added Ledman's 880nm array (size is about half of one of David's panels)

3 - What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit?

ID: home made, cables are all over the place but it does the job nicely at a fraction of the cost
Ledman: much better finition.

4 - How, and how often, do you use it?

Around 45mins daily, used to be in 1 session but now I do 3 smaller ones, 1 hour apart.
Been using it for 4-5 months?
Stayed far from the unit at first then progressively got closer til I was touching it. But the leds are a bit too warm which is a problem if heat is a trigger. So I now stay about 15cm away from the panels with a fan blowing.
I wear tanning goggles so I can't do anything at all while using it, it's a pain in the bum...

5 - Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin?

I clean up my face properly after the last session, but I usually remove my moisturizer with water before the first session.

6 - What benefit have you experienced?

Attention :) ...in a more positive way anyway... Mainly a lot less flushing for sure (partly caused by IPL), perhaps less irritation/oiliness ?
Can't seem to get rid of the base redness...

7 - Tips or other comments.

Lots of people use this after IPL which they forget to mention (and so do I), difficult to tell how efficient it would be without it, but IPL without RLT will get you back to square one quick because of the constant flushes.

12th December 2006, 06:46 PM

Which? Where? 84x660nm (red) units from
www.elixa.com

I have a couple 84x880nm units too. Haven't tried these over an extended period yet.

Build quality? Pretty reasonable. They are less chunky than they appear on the site.

How often? Pretty much every day, last thing at night or first thing in morning for 10-30mins.

Applied over clear skin? As a general rule I do not use topicals of any sort over the Winter. Come Summer, I will wipe off physical sunscreen before use.

Benefits? Improved skin texture. Base redness (prolonged low-grade flushing?) considerably improved. Inflammation reduced. Some improvement in flushing response, duration, intensity etc. As yet, little impact on Winter evening flushes.

Tips? If buying from Elixa and in the UK, you need to spell out - loudly and clearly - the need for a three pin 240v adaptor.

Buy/contrive a system that will enable you to relax/lie down during treatments.

Artist

12th December 2006, 07:21 PM

Elixa sounds like a mixed drink. ha ha!

Wow the Elixa and Ledman are much less expensive than my acnelamp. I'm not sure if this makes it worth the extra cost, but the thing I like about acnelamp is the flexible neck I can use to aim it at me when I'm lying down. Also, it sounds like the Elixa and Ledman emit a bit more heat. Hard to tell for sure unless compared side by side. Perhaps I'll try one of the other brands in the future. They look more portable. Might be useful for trips, etc. Although, I do have the small handheld acnelamp. I'm swimming in lamps and lights, but it's been worth it!

Artist

northernguy

13th December 2006, 06:20 PM

Artist,

i was wondering whether you use glasses/goggles infront of your lamp? because you mentioned that you're using the red and near-infared acne lamp...if you are, could you let me know which ones you're using

thanks

Artist

13th December 2006, 08:25 PM

Hi northernguy: I use the ones that came with the lamp. They are plastic with a dark center. I can see through the dark center slightly. I think they are the same ones one would get at a tanning salon. Artist

northernguy

13th December 2006, 09:07 PM

what about the patient block out glasses that are 125$? are those necessary, or are the protective goggles that come with the lamp good enough for red/infared?

13th December 2006, 11:12 PM

They look more portable.

They are admirably portable. Not much bigger than a pack of cards.
All four of my units - for no apparent reason - seem to emit varying degress of heat. Hardly an issue if you are not holding the arrays during treatments - fixed them to an arm, into a table or whatever - but if you have perhaps taken them on holiday and are having to hold them up to your face, the sensation of heat in your hands may be enough to give you pause: ' What am I doing with this heat source so close to my noggin?'

Such a thought may spell calamity for ready flushers.

13th December 2006, 11:18 PM

what about the patient block out glasses that are 125$? are those necessary, or are the protective goggles that come with the lamp good enough for red/infared?

When I (very occasionally) use my 880nm arrays, I wear $4 googles bought form the local tanning salon. Attractive staff; nice to have an excuse to pop in.

I am not yet blind.

redhotoz

14th December 2006, 08:33 PM

1. - Which LLLT unit do you use?

Home made - IowaDavid made the 6 panels up for me - low level red LEDs. Each panel has 147 LEDs, total 882. Panels put together by my Electrican boyfriend, into an arch shape, which is brilliant. You can check it out here (bottom post on the page):

http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewtopic.php?t=3542&start=15

2 - Where did you buy it?

From David in America. Posted to Australia. Very grateful! :D

3 - What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit?

Obviously time consuming for David. Great workmanship. Thank you, David!

4 - How, and how often, do you use it?

Every night, when I go to bed - I switch on. Sometimes 1/2 hour, sometimes 2-3 hours. Depends when I wake up and realise the lights are still on. Started at a distance of about 15-20cms, for short stints, to see what it was like. Now about 10cms away for as long as I am asleep...until I switch off. Wouldn't recommend a long time under near infrared or infrared though.

5 - Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin?

I wash my face with Acarid Removing Soap, apply ZZ ointment, close my eyes and go to sleep under my array. I don't believe it matters though. Freshly washed skin or all day skin, the lights will still do their stuff.

6 - What benefit have you experienced?

Ah...well...let's see....less sensitive skin for starters. I do also think it helps in some way with the overall redness on my face. Not sure it helps much with p&p's but I guess time will tell with that. It's de-stressing, which is a good thing for me. Overall calmness of the face, which I guess could be translated to less inflammation. I believe less flushing too.

7 - Tips or other comments.

I started off wearing goggles that I purchased from the local tanning salon but found that the light seemed to focus into the inside corners of my eyes. I no longer wear goggles. However, if I were to use near infrared or infrared, I would definitely wear goggles.

I don't believe it's a cure but it sure is a simple and cost-effective regime. Since I am medication-free, I'm really pleased with the results so far.

If anyone is interested in light therapy at home, I would suggest that you get a unit that is easy and comfortable to use.

Jen

Capri

20th December 2006, 02:49 PM

1. Dermalux converted all red 6 fluorescent tube acne lamp. Have recently been experimenting with their all red LED unit.
Peter

Is this http://www.dermalux.co.uk/index.htm the one you mean Peter? Just with the blue tubes replaced by red ones? Did they do it for you? Or did you replace them yourself?

Peter

20th December 2006, 09:15 PM

Hello Capri

Yes that's the one. If you want to order one then just advise them you are trying it to treat rosacea and you want it converted to all red. The tubes just plug in so they are very easy to change. If you react to fluorescent tubes then I would advise you try an LED lamp instead which would be more suitable for you. Also remember the tubes need replacing every 3 - 4 years based on 15 minutes daily use and each tube can cost up to £25 each.

Good luck

Peter

Capri

21st December 2006, 02:12 PM

Thanks for that Peter, much appriciated.

Do Dermalux supply an LED one as well? I can't find one on the website. I think I'll give it a shot with the tubes one, I don't believe I have a reaction to fluorescent tubes, but then again Im not always sure, my triggers can be seemingly random at times. As far as you are aware though, is there any 'performance' difference between tube vs LED? The cost is not a huge concern so don't mind paying extra if needed to play it safe with an LED unit?

Thanks again.

Peter

22nd December 2006, 12:58 PM

Hello Capri

No problem.

They do supply a hand held LED lamp but at the moment but I understand this is the only one you can currently purchase from them. The LED appears to be just as effective but like all this things there are pros and cons for each type of device. I got my LED a few months back because I wanted to experiment and I also needed something more portable for when I travel, which it is ideal for. Even though the LED is more expensive (£280) the main benefit is that the LED’S themselves should last for a very long time so there are no additional costs of replacing tubes etc after a few years.

I will PM you later with some details and if necessary send you some pictures of both lamps that I use.

Regards

Peter

Capri

22nd December 2006, 01:57 PM

Thanks Peter that is very good of you! I tried ringing Dermalux this afternoon but the phone is off the hook, I presume they have finished for the Christmas holidays. I will try them on the 27th but I guess they might not be back until the new year. Anyway there is no rush.

Thanks for all your help.

Artist

24th December 2006, 06:31 PM

Northernguy, that is a good queston about the block out goggles. Anyone know if the regular goggles are ok with near-infrared, or if the $125 "block out goggles" acnelamp sells and "recommends" are necessary? After 9 weeks my eyes are fine and I've just been using the ones the lamp comes with for free..

Artist

DukeCity

26th December 2006, 03:57 AM

-- I was just searching on EBAY and entered "acne lamp" to see what they had for sale on there, they had one unit blue&red lamps for about $250US it uses 3-red and 3-blue lamps and in the description it cites a study done by Dr. Chu at Hammersmith Hospital in regards to acne treatment with the blue-red lamps, very interesting.

Twickle Purple

26th December 2006, 04:30 AM

I think that is the configuration of lamp Peter started with. He swapped out the blue for all red eventually.

fut

26th December 2006, 06:18 PM

I want to buy the infrared handheld unit from Elixa. Is it alright if I keep my eyes closed while using this unit or are goggles necessary for complete protection?

Twickle Purple

26th December 2006, 08:35 PM

Most folks are adament about the goggles. I use 660+880nm panels on my dimalux, almost 2300 LEDs, and haven't worn goggles in months because my eyelids need treatment too. I just close my eyes. I also have a DPL unit that's almost all 880nm, with only a few 660nm LEDs, same thing here -- I just close my eyes. I do take an occasional peak at times for reasons but it is fleeting and infrequent. The literature on the DPL site says there has been no report of eye damage, they only recommend that you don't stare into the LEDs. They provide 'eyeshields' for your comfort. :roll: Which are a strip of black oval stickers that you put on your eyelids. They're not big enough for my eyes and they pull at the skin when they come off. I tried one and didn't bother after that. I don't think that UV blocking sunglasses work here, wrong wavelength protection. I dug up somewhere that green lenses would be best for this wavelength, metal are what is generally said to be best.

So, I can't recommend one way or the other. I can only say what I am doing and that I'm not blind yet. 8)

Chelsey

1st January 2007, 05:58 PM

Hi All,

First time poster but long time reader of this forum and rosacea endurer!

I've had rosacea for close to ten years and have tried just about all the treatments that are available including prescribed meds, supplements, dietary modifications, dozens of IPL treatments (I've lost count) and most recently V Beam treatments, all with varying amounts of success and lots of set backs along the way.

After reading the experiences of members on this board (many thanks to David, Peter, Twickle Purple et al for sharing all this great information) I've decided to add RLT to my arsenal and have followed this thread with a lot of interest. I hope that other members who have tried RLT post their experiences as well - it is very helpful to those of us who are trying to make up our minds about what product to buy - it really is appreciated!

Twickle, in reading your posts, I believe that you have tried two of the products that I am considering and I'm hoping you can offer your opinion on what has worked best for you (I realize you've used them for varying amount of time and for different conditions, but based on your experiences to date). Have you used your custom made LEDMAN array on your rosacea and how would you compare that unit to the DPL unit which I believe you've also started using? What are the pros and cons of each? Which ultimately would you recommend for flushing/burning/red?

Also, for those using the ACNE lamp, would the three head unit be enough to cover my full face and also under my chin? For the Red & Near-Infared unit, do you know what the proportion of Red versus Infared lights are? (there are 210 in total but the website doesn't break it down).
I'm happy to contact the manufacturer but thought that someone might already have this unit.

Thanks again everyone for all this great information. Really looking forward to trying this and will let you know what unit I buy and how it is working.

Happy New Year!

Twickle Purple

1st January 2007, 06:56 PM

Welcome to the forum Chelsey!

I had only begun using the DPL before Christmas. I experienced an increase in flushing and thought my skin didn't like it very much so decided to wait until a good amount of time had passed to try it again to see if it was other elements giving me trouble. I know that other members here use it and posted positively on it. Turns out I had some rotten bug which gave me ear and sinus infections. This explained the flushing, among other things. So, the long and the short of it: I don't know about that one yet. :wink: I will give it another go round once my head clears.

The DPL is mostly 880nm with just a few 660nm LEDs. Which, in my mind, makes it 'stronger'. I started with all 660nm, it was gentle and very helpful.

Only because I have the dimalux, the flexible array of LEDMAN is not something I use on my face. I do use the smaller LEDMAN 96 LED arrays everyday though. This fellow runs his LEDs hot to increase the MCD (brightness) so they get warm quickly. There is debate on whether this actually enhances their effectiveness though. This heat has put some folks off treating their face, but holding the unit a few inches away works for me. If I did not have the dimalux I would definitely use the LEDMAN flexible array. I would figure a way to suspend it though.

I hope this is helpful.
I wish you great success with this!
Twickle Purple

Chelsey

2nd January 2007, 02:33 AM

Thanks for your reply, Twickle and sorry to hear about your sinus and ear infections, especially around Chrismas. I know anytime I get sick, my face will flush, no matter how well it's been doing. Hope the DPL is ultimately helpful for you.

I'm not worried about the heat that comes off the Ledman's unit, however I'm wondering why you would want to suspend it? Could I not sit in front of it at my desk or at a table?

Twickle Purple

2nd January 2007, 03:21 AM

I'm wondering why you would want to suspend it? Could I not sit in front of it at my desk or at a table?

You can. It's just that your posture will get a work out with the flexy unit. You'll want to be 'face in' and around 3-6 inches from it. Maybe it can be set to height on some books or something like that, it would make it more comfortable. This is where the DPL has the advantage. It's the right height and angle. I found the build is pretty flimsy where the panels join the stand though and the panels tend to come off too easily. But it's suitable for its purpose, and the panels coming off give it added flexibility.

Twickle Purple

12th January 2007, 05:44 AM

Best price yet for LED therapy products: click here (http://heelspurs.com/cgi-bin/c/store/commerce.cgi?search_request_button=Search%20Produc ts&keywords=p=led)

Check out the one at the bottom. Only 20 LEDs but for the price ( $18 ) you can get a few, and they have a regular light bulb base so they can be put into your own lamp stand. Lot's of colour options too.

They have a good 'research' link to: click here (https://plus37.safe-order.net/heelspurs/a/led/led_research.html)

Capri

17th January 2007, 11:13 AM

1 - Which LLLT unit do you use?

2x84 "All Red" LED handheld units from Elixa

2 - Where did you buy it?

www.elixa.com Very good service, arrived within 7 days USA -> UK including the New Year holiday. E-mailed to let me know it was on its way, including postage tracking number.

3 - What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit?

They are good little units, lightweight and slimmer then they appear on the website. However I wouldn't say they feel very heavy duty, but so long as your not throwing them around they are more then adequate. They are also portable enough to take on holiday.

4 - How, and how often, do you use it?

I lie down with one on either cheek, the units are sat on some VHS boxes to raise the height. I started slowly, and now after two weeks I'm on 15mins a day, just started to do 2x15 mins p/day. No ill effects suffered.

5 - Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin?

Clean skin.

6 - What benefit have you experienced?

Skin feels softer and smoother. Too early for anything else I think, but going well, no side effects.

7 - Tips or other comments

Been said by many people, but find someway of lieing down while doing the treatment, its a pain holding the units all the time and probably would lead to skipping sessions or shortening them. Then switch your phone off, put some music on, relax and enjoy!

If oredering from the US with Elixa, as GJ said, make sure you specify a 230v powerpack with each unit you buy. They said they couldn't supply me one with a 3-pin plug but wiring a plug is even within my DIY capabilities!

8 - Cost

$234, which worked out at £122. This was for 2 units including postage, so not bad value at all, and as I said, very good service from Elixa.

Quench

30th January 2007, 07:01 PM

1 - Which LLLT unit do you use?

An all Red" LED handheld units from Elixa

2 - Where did you buy it?

www.elixa.com

3 - What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit?

Fine. they are about the size of a pack of cards and quite light. they don't generate much heat and none from the lights themselves.

4 - How, and how often, do you use it?

Well I've had the unit for ages but have only started using it this January - new year's resolution. My original idea was to get something inexpensive and then if I noticed good results, invest in a more permanent unit. I've been using it for about 3 weeks now. I use it once a day for about 15 minutes. I lie down and hold it a couple inches off my face.

5 - Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin?

I remove any make up first but don't make any other prep.

6 - What benefit have you experienced?

A bit too early to say though I think the redness is breaking up.

7 - Tips or other comments

Elixa supplied me witha three-pin plug!

8 - Cost

About £60 - £70. I can't remember exactly.

30th January 2007, 08:51 PM

Elixa supplied me with a three-pin plug!

Gloating is terribly unnattractive! :evil:
:D

Quench

2nd February 2007, 12:41 PM

Well damn! :evil:

I just switched on my Elixa unit for today's 15 minutes and it just flashed and went out! It won't come back on. It is now officially broken :evil:

It is a few months old but has seen only a few week's of use so I am a bit miffed :(.

Quench

2nd February 2007, 12:42 PM

Elixa supplied me with a three-pin plug!

Gloating is terribly unnattractive! :evil:
:D

I guess I got my just desserts! :P (actually I looked and it was only a 2 point fitted into an adapter anyway :oops: ).

Quench

2nd February 2007, 02:48 PM

The nice people at Elixa have offred to replace it if I send it back. :)

Chelsey

5th February 2007, 11:54 PM

1. Which LLLT unit do you use?

DPL Therapy (Deep Penetrating Light) by LED Technologies - Combination of 154 880nm infrared LEDs and 20 660nm Red LEDs.

2. Where did you buy it?

From the manufacturer - LED Technologies - Colorado

3. What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit?

I think it's a good design and sturdy build. Unit consists of two panels mounted on a stand. You can remove the panels for spot treatment but I never do because it covers my whole face plus under my chin. The Sales & Marketing rep I spoke to at the company is also a user and gave me some advice on how to ensure full coverage. Stare into one panel for half the time and the other panel for the remaining time. You can feel the heat from the lights radiating down the throat.

4. How, and how often, do you use it?

It's on a timer for 9 minutes per session. I use it twice a day, in the morning and at night. They suggest you do this for the first month and then decrease to two treatments a week. I plan on continuing for two treatments per day. I've been using it for three weeks now.

5. Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin?

Clean skin

6. What benefits have you experienced?

It's funny but the first benefit I noticed was in my hands which are usually a good indication of how red my face is. I haven't been treating my hands yet they seem to be getting noticably paler. This last weekend was when I really noticed a difference in my face. It's been -30 celsius with the wind chill and normally I'm red, swollen and burning in this type of cold weather. Yet, I was in no pain and my face wasn't nearly as red. Today I was back at work and had a stressful day (still very cold outside) and again I looked in the mirror at lunch and was very impressed at how my skin looked. It's early days so I'm wondering whether this can be attributable to red light therapy, but I must say I usually can not in any way, shape or form control my rosacea when it's this cold! Can't think what else could be making the difference.

Also, my skin is very soft and smooth - very noticable difference.

7. Tips or other comments.

I'm am very hopeful about this therapy. The first two days I used it I was quite flushed and was worried that I couldn't continue, but I took two days off and then started up again with no ill effects. I can now put my face within half an inch of the lights.

8. $349.99 US plus shipping. If you're lucky enough to be Canadian, add on exchange plus about $100 duty (ouch!)

redhotoz

9th February 2007, 10:39 AM

Have made this thread a 'Sticky', as it offers good feedback from those using various light devices.

Jen

sorrow

16th February 2007, 08:52 PM

Hi all. It's been a while since I was this eager about something. I just placed an order for special panel array (672 LED PANEL) where is 4x84 660nm's and 4x84 880nm's. I plan to use them separately. Thanks to twickle purple for her great insight. :shock: :lol:

Twickle Purple

16th February 2007, 09:28 PM

Hi Sorrow,

I first heard about RLT here, on this site, from Peter, IowaDavid, et al. And, like you, I hadn't been so excited about something in a long time (never like this actually, the more information I found the more hopeful I became.) I am still amazed at what it does for me. It's really great when we finally find something that truly works!

I wish you great success with your arrays. I hope you will share your experience.

Twickle Purple

Quench

21st February 2007, 09:22 AM

The nice people at Elixa have offred to replace it if I send it back. :)

And a replacement arrived today! Pretty impressive service when you consider it's been across the Atlantic and back!

Twickle Purple

21st February 2007, 03:43 PM

That's great news Quench. From everything I have read, the service at Elixa is always A+!

Chelsey

2nd March 2007, 01:01 AM

An update since my last post. The thing that is amazing me most about red light therapy is that it has taken most of the pain away and I can't tell if I'm flushed anymore. I was sitting in a long meeting this morning and drinking hot coffee on an empty stomach and I suspected I must be flushed but that usual prickly, burning feeling wasn't there so I couldn't tell for sure. Later when I looked in the mirror, I was a bit red but that has gone down as well. So far I'm very impressed. Hope this only continues to get better over time!

Twickle Purple

2nd March 2007, 02:03 AM

That's great news Chelsey. I'm really glad for you.

Chelsey

2nd March 2007, 03:22 AM

Thank you, TP. The information here has been great - so glad to find something other than IPL that works!

sorrow

23rd March 2007, 06:46 PM

I got my RLTs from the Ledman few days ago. I have one 660nm panel (4 arrays) and one 880nm panel (4 arrays). Each array has got 82 LEDs. I have used it about 3x25 mins a day. No increased flushing etc. Skin texture might have imporoved a little. I'll keep you upto date.

kohlrabi_Croce

3rd April 2007, 10:21 PM

I found this today:

http://tinyurl.com/yqcml2

E27 JDR Red LED Lamp
1.4 - 1.6 Watt LED Edison Socket
36 LEDS

$17 each. I got two. They screw into any kind
of ordinary lamp socket. I'm getting some
flexible desk lamps.

So I'll let you know how it goes.

jennfran

4th April 2007, 12:04 PM

I am interested in how this works, please let us know. Also do you need eye protection with this one?...Jenn

kohlrabi_Croce

4th April 2007, 03:30 PM

Well, I've been reading a lot of old posts on here, and going by
that, you only need the goggles with blue light or near-infrared light.
If you have red only, it's ok. If you have a combo of red and
near-infra=red, better wear goggles.

Yes, I'll let you know how it works. I'm on antibiotics at the moment.
That is my first step of treatment for this, and it is helping a lot.
I have permanent redness & P&P's, but no painful flushing yet.

jennfran

4th April 2007, 04:29 PM

kohlrabi_Croce

4th April 2007, 04:56 PM

I am going to start treatment on Tuesday and that will be my first with treatment as I was just dx two days ago. I do not have alot of redness but do have some. Do you know the nm's or output of this paticular one?, or whatever they call it, boy am I newbie :P ..lol..

I don't know the nm's for this light. But then it's being sold by a
theatrical supply house, not a health specialty outfit. I' m going
by this article instead:

http://tinyurl.com/2kknlu

So if the nm's are near 630, I'd be able to see the difference
in the color, that is, they'd be orange-red rather than pure red.

But I probably want them near 660, which would be pure red.
I checked with the guy to make sure there are no infra-red
or near infra-red led's in there, and he said no. Cause I don't
want that at this point.

He did make sure to tell me that the light would not be diffuse
like a regular light bulb, that it would be pretty much directed
in the way it's pointed, because it's meant to be pointed at people.
That was just what I want, so no problem there.

Ok good luck with it and I hope it works well for you..Jenn

Thank you, I'm a newbie too. I hope this works, because I don't have
a lot of $$. I only shelled out for the expensive antibiotics because I couldn't stand it any more.

Good luck with your treatment too.

kohlrabi_Croce

4th April 2007, 05:08 PM

oh, one more thing. According to the same company:

http://tinyurl.com/3d4z86

The near-infra-red is actually around 850 nm, not 660 nm
as that article says. So if it's pure red, and has no near-infrared
led's in it, it's probably around 660, which is good, because I'm
not ready for near-infrared yet.

I don't know why they have this discrepancy between their ad
and the article on their site.

I think the light bulbs I found are an even better deal than what
they offer. Remains to be seen.

Skywolf

4th April 2007, 05:24 PM

kohlrabi_Croce

4th April 2007, 05:44 PM

Thank you, I'm a newbie too. I hope this works, because I don't have
a lot of $$. I only shelled out for the expensive antibiotics because I couldn't stand it any more.

Good luck with your treatment too.

You have been posting here since 2005, you are not a newbie, I have read your previous posts.
You opinion is valued here, but please do not make false statements

Laura

Ahem, To say that I have been posting here since 2005 is not the same
assaying that I am not a newbie. Have I been a real regular? no.
Do I really know very much yet? No.

I only just bought Dr. Nase's book on the subject last fall, and found it
lacking in saying much of anything about lasers. I found it not exactly
riveting, and just skimmed through the parts I wanted to know most about.
So I'm still not a rosacea expert. I hate to sound shallow, but
I'm more interested in treating it than reading about the science
in minute detail, because:

I have not exactly had this health problem (rosacea) on the front burner
because I have another one I've been dealing with (Diabetes), for a while.
You have to admit, something like diabetes is even more important
to deal with than this! I am fortunate that I was able to educate myself
about it, and don't need anything other than diet & exercise at this point.

Next, When I first started posting, my rosacea wasn't terribly bad yet.
I had no p&p's, and I was trying to just use some herbal supplements
or find some dietary solution. Things gradually got worse, and I
realized I had to really educate msyelf about it, and eventually
actually shell out the money for some anti-biotics or think about
laser treatment (like IPL)even though I am really suspicious about
those.

So what is a newbie? Let's define the term, shall we? I'd really
like to know. Thank you!

Skywolf

4th April 2007, 06:08 PM

kohlrabi_Croce

4th April 2007, 06:21 PM

Oh, also, between November 22, 2005 and March 21, 2007, I only posted
on one thread, which was on December 19. 2006.

I have not been paying close attention to this forum, for reasons already
mentioned. So what are your reasons for not mentioning that?

Your comment gives the impression that I've been a regular poster
all along. It hints of disingenuousness.

Why can't you people be a little nicer? I'm a lot calmer now that I've
got my blood glucose under control, but I feel I have enough to deal
with, with the carb wars between the Type One and Type Two diabetics,
plus other things in life.

Are you all totally paranoid about secret attacks from Dr. Nase and
his secret army of attack posters?

*I'm* trying to be nice. I'm even trying to share the low cost solution
(I hope) that I found for myself.

kohlrabi_Croce

4th April 2007, 06:28 PM

A newbie to me is someone new to a board, new to a disease in this case, posting as a new member. If you had stated that you were a newbie to RLT (as am I) I would not have made mention of this. Your reply was very hostile, I will not go further into it, except to say I am glad you are managing your diabites, I have that in my family and know the toll it takes, so my best wishes for you on that, I am glad you can keep it in check without meds, and good luck with the RLT as well, though I dont think it would have direct results on blood sugar levels, I would think the relaxation of sitting for a bit under the lamp is healing in a holistic way.

Best to you,
Laura

Thank you for your good wishes about the diabetes.

Please tell me how my reply was hostile.

This is the internet, and there is no body language. So people's word's
are often taken in the wrong way. Really specifically, how was it hostile?

Maybe you should put that definition in the FAQ, or better yet on the registration page,
so people will know whether or not to call themselves newbies so they won't be called out on it.

Why does this upset you? Why is it such a big deal? I consider myself
a relative newbie and I've already explained why. Should we ask
Jenn if she feels I misled her in any way? That's probably more important
to me than what an over-zealous moderator thinks.

Skywolf

4th April 2007, 06:28 PM

Laura swims up to the bait, sniffs it, and swims away
Over and out

kohlrabi_Croce

4th April 2007, 06:33 PM

Laura swims up to the bait, sniffs it, and swims away
Over and out

And here's yet another insult.

well I guess there is no answer to that, is there? You accused
me of dishonesty, and I explained myself. I was hoping to
find a nice supportive environment here. Even despite the fact
that it seems there's a lot of distrust on this place, I'm still
going to share what results I get with these light bulbs, just
because it this really works, it will be a great thing.

kohlrabi_Croce

5th April 2007, 05:25 AM

here's a self-correction, if it really matters, but I guess it really does:

On Nov. 14 2005 I stated that my P&P's had gotten a lot worse.

yes, that was about when it really started to be a problem for me.
So yes I did have to refresh my own memory of when it exactly
started. It was on the yahoo group that it hadn't gotten that bad yet.
and on there I was pretty much just focusing on asking a few people
about using boswellia. I didn't bother about metrogel or IPL or accutane
or learning about any of that stuff, because I was looking for some
herb that might do it.

So I posted on 2 threads in November 2005 and one in Dec 2006.
That's all for this forum. That's a real big indicator of my being an old
hand all right.

Yes, I just put up with the P&P's all this time, and I was wrong about the
dietary things helping. They didn't, and going vegan turned out to
be a bad decision too because it's not good for the diabetes.

I'm still using a lot of soy though, and doing fine with it.

Getting back to the RLT thing, I will post whether these lights
were any good or not, because I haven't tried them yet.

Ok, I'm sorry this had to happen on this thread, so I'll start a
new one when I know one way or the other about these LED
lights.

Skywolf

5th April 2007, 05:40 AM

Please contine to post here on this thread. If you found some good lights at what I would call a bargain price that is awsome for those of us without a lot of the green to go around.
I also appologize for derailing this thread. But eh, just a couple folks snapping at eachother, it wont derail it for long.
Now back to the RLT topic!

Laura

Susecita

16th April 2007, 11:45 AM

kohlrabi_Croce

17th April 2007, 02:13 PM

I am also super interested in a low priced option....I am about to called the parental units (yep, Im 26 too! :op) to beg them to shell the mullah for this...but I do not know enough about them yet to do so. I have some money for an IPL treatment but perhaps this would be a better option. Do these reduce redness at all?

Thanks!

Sus

Hi Sus,

If you mean the light bulb link I posted, I'm just starting to try
them out. I think it's too soon to say yet, and I haven't
been able to spend much time doing it yet.

I didn't take any before pictures because I've been working
graveyard shift for the last seven days straight. That wouldn't
give a really true idea of my original condition anyway because
I've been on antibiotics for the last month, and that has helped
a lot.

I did get some nifty lamps for these bulbs on ebay, for cheap.
If you try it, try to get a flexible neck desk lamp that's about
18" high. Those really short student desk lamps are...too
short.

kohlrabi_Croce

16th May 2007, 05:14 PM

Ok, I'd have to say that red plus near-infrared is better.

After using those $17 light bulbs for a few weeks, I did notice improvement, but started to feel that I wanted something more aggressive. So I bought
the 120 LED light bulb from heelspurs.com, for about $60. It's red plus NIR.

It's better. Having those two $17 bulbs is not bad though; I may just start using them all together. I can't see paying $800 for a custom built array.

I did notice something interesting though - if I point these light bulbs at the wall, the $17 bulbs make a very nice pure red circle on the wall. The $60 bulb can't project it that far. It's actually not really bright, but that's ok because I sit close, and like the ad says, it's weaker so you have to spend more time with it.

kohlrabi_Croce

17th August 2007, 04:39 AM

So now I'm without the $60 light bulb because it broke. So I found these:

http://tinyurl.com/2ol9uw

at a company called Golden Gadgets. These only cost me $16 each
because I bought 2 the first time, and each one has 80 LED's.
I thought they were going to be really really bright, but I find
they are completely tolerable, and solidly made. Even if one
does break, it's less painful to buy a new one.

I think I'm going to do much better with these, because before
I felt like I was struggling to spend enough time to get enough
exposure with those small light bulbs from progearwarehouse.

That $60 bulb was cheaply made, and I don't recommend it now.

Twickle Purple

17th August 2007, 05:26 AM

Excellent find, KC! Thanks for the link. :D

kohlrabi_Croce

20th August 2007, 12:43 AM

Excellent find, KC! Thanks for the link. :D

You're welcome :) I hope that might be helpful.

Since I'm using these on my neck as well, I've been trying to
come up with a lamp solution, and I think I finally got it.

I got two more of these lamps from amazon:

http://tinyurl.com/2k4xj9

Then I bought some flat five pound weights. I duct taped
the five pound weight to the bottom of the lamp, and voila,
now I have a cheap but good lamp that does not fall over,
and is large enough for these light bulbs. So now I can bend
the light backwards to point it at my neck, no problem.

The five pound weights cost me like$2.67 each at the evil
Walmart empire.

This is the lamp that the $60 light bulb got broken in. Now
it doesn't have an excuse to fall over.

I'm using the light on my neck because that skin is turning
rather red too. Plus I want some help with the anti-aging
thing.

Kohlrabi

man_from_mars

20th May 2008, 05:15 PM

http://tinyurl.com/2ol9uw

For testing out RLT effects on the face
was wondering how these bulbs have held up for you or any problems?

There isn't much info on the LED specs for the red one
How does it compare to some of the expensive ones?

thanks,
mfm

Strive

31st May 2008, 02:12 PM

Twickle Purple,

Have you tried the lights from kohlrabi? I trust your judgment.

Twickle Purple

3rd June 2008, 04:20 PM

Hi Strive,

I have purchased lights such as those to check them out. I would only recommend checking out the RLT devices that folks have used and posted success with. I have not used those lights per se, so cannot recommend them. I have used and recommend devices from these folks: LEDMAN, TANDA, ELIXA, Dimalux (Acnelamp). While I have purchased a very good unit from eBay, I have also purchased a poor unit through another reseller so cannot recommend that route unless you purchase from a seller that understands the specifications on the units they sell.

Best wishes!
TP

kohlrabi_Croce

4th June 2008, 01:59 PM

hi man from mars,

I can't compare it to more expensive units because I don't have one yet.

I do feel that these help me, however, I tend to have trouble with
having the time to sit under them when I'm working a convention.
Eventually I started to have trouble with P&P's again because of that,
so now I am hoping to buy a blue one soon.

A year ago I was on clarithromycin for a few weeks, and that cleared
up the P&P's, and had just started doing the red light. It didn;t start to
come back until I started working long shows back to back this winter
and spring.

I think I'm finding a small solution for that, by getting a small "aviator"
flashlight with 9 red LED's on it to take to work with me.

In the meantime I've been using a totally inadequate gadget with 4
blue LEd's at work to try to deal with the p&p's.

That company, goldengadgets, doesn;t sell those light bulbs anymore,
but I'm getting my new blue one from here:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5162

and here's a red one:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5134

hope that helps!

PS I might get me a blue LED flahlight too. The infrared flashlight
didn;t work out - I'd need a light meter even to know when it was turned on.

man_from_mars

4th June 2008, 02:17 PM

Thanks for the reply,
I think I got the last 2 lights from them
Your new link is even cheaper so I wish I had waited doh:

I've only used them 2x so can't say if it will help
but it is a good way to see if you are ready to commit the time to RLT

I need a more comfortable setup like TP has going on

mfm

kohlrabi_Croce

4th June 2008, 03:22 PM

I don't know about her setup. but I think the only way it could be more comfortable
is to do like Iowadave and make his model that lets you lie down.

I am starting to do parts of my red light time while I'm surfing the net - that is
with the chin and neck area. For the eyes of course I have to just sit with
eyes closed. But it helps a bit.

Twickle Purple

4th June 2008, 10:47 PM

MnM, you're going to need about 2 months before you see/feel anything and then only if you're committed and have adequate coverage, etc.

I do lie down in my sessions, the Dimalux is enormous and does the whole face. IowaDavid's unit is as practical and more accessable price-wise. Just need to be the handy sort to make it (or know some one who is). The Tanda is great to use while bedside reading (but it beeps alot), the LEDMAN is also handy but it gets too hot too quickly for me to use it on my face for the length of time I want/need (20 minutes). The Elixa is also handy but the Tanda fits more comfortably in my hand so I've taken to grabbing that one.

phlika29

16th July 2008, 07:20 PM

As a review of all the stickies in each section we are streamlining the stickies in this section. The ones that will be unstuck include:

Red Light Therapy - Dimalux Review (http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=10462)

Red Light Therapy – Photon Tender TPB-300 Review (http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=10475)

Red Light Therapy – the LEDMAN Custom Array Review (http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=10552)

They can still be found within this section.

newfiechicadee

19th August 2008, 03:32 PM

Hi guys!!

I have red some things on this not enough to date but sounds like it will be my next approach
when i get better and get rid of this flare,,,,
i will say i am sensitive to sun and light,,wasn;t always but i guess the tetracyclines did this i find i'm more sensitive,,,i also noticed in the past i use to do well with sun always cleared me up,,,and tried some sunbeds in past long ago and always did me well...right now i do no sun and always wear sunblock..i know sun and rlt different but i do find when i was taking tetracycline i think even lights bothered me,,,i have very pale skin and have the p&p type type 2,,had some lasers ipl 5 treattmenst and i was great when i had them no side effects at all,,,since this flare started i find i am blushing and red ,,not sure if from creams or not,,maybe when i get better i could tell then,,,not sure if this treatment right for me just wondering and reading,,,thanks

Perihelion

18th September 2008, 05:44 PM

phlika29

18th September 2008, 05:46 PM

I would advise that you send him a private message and ask him.

Melissa has also had one built
http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/member.php?u=1332

Perihelion

18th September 2008, 05:58 PM

Thank you. I just did smile:

chris

24th September 2008, 05:34 PM

Just seen this product advertised at ledwholesalers.com based in california, they state that the red LED's are 650nm and the blue led's are 435nm (225 LED's in total), they are marketed as a grow lamp for plants i presume, the quality looks good, as i am short on cash i thought the price of 40 dollars was really good but just wondering if anyone else has seen this product before or even tried the frequency(650 nm), the website has a whole variety of LED equipment, any feedback on the suitablity of this product would be much appreciated.

carl

3rd August 2009, 11:44 PM

1) What company makes the LED arrays sold by Elixa?
2) How effective are elixa arrays?
3) Can they be left on for long periods like several hours without burning up?

thanks

Melissa W

3rd August 2009, 11:52 PM

post #7 is helpful

I am not sure why you would want to leave it on for hours though.

Melissa W

3rd August 2009, 11:54 PM

ps you should read through this whole thread as there is info you might find helpful here. That is why I gave you this link.

5th August 2009, 04:20 PM

1) What company makes the LED arrays sold by Elixa? Don't know. Pretty robust things.
2) How effective are elixa arrays? I and others have used them, with success, for a few years or so.
3) Can they be left on for long periods like several hours without burning up? Yep. I've fallen asleep and they've been on for hours without getting excessively hot.

Michael_V

28th October 2009, 01:11 AM

Wow, nothing since August? How is everyone doing with their LED therapy?

I went online and checked out all of the LED devices recommended in this thread.

Seemed like a lot of people liked the stuff Elixa sells, so I just ordered their LightWorks High Intensity Pulsed LED System:

http://www.elixa.com/light/lightworks.htm

Two things I liked about it:

(1) It has 660nm red lights on one side and 880nm NIR lights on the other, so nice flexibility.
(2) It is a handheld wand, which I think I would prefer to either holding a pack of cards to my face or sitting in front of a table (personal preference!). Also pretty important in my selection: I have a couple of injured tendons (elbow and ankle) that I would like to use this on. The wand configuration should make that easier.

Anyway, I'm pretty stoked to give this a shot. yes: I have had two IPL sessions so far with minimal improvement in baseline redness and no significant change in flushing. blush: I'm hoping this will help control things a bit better!

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I'll post my review once I've spent some time with it!

Melissa W

28th October 2009, 01:22 AM

Good luck Michael!!
I hope you experience great results with it!!

Michael_V

28th October 2009, 02:52 AM

Good luck Michael!!
I hope you experience great results with it!!

Thanks, Melissa!

By the way ... totally off topic ... but you look very pretty in your profile picture.

Judworth

28th October 2009, 07:58 AM

Michael_V

28th October 2009, 06:07 PM

Wishing you all the best with it!

Jsmile:

Thanks, J! smile:

How's it working for you so far? Too early to tell?

Judworth

28th October 2009, 06:14 PM

Thanks, J! smile:

How's it working for you so far? Too early to tell?

VERY well!

(See Judworth RLT journeysmile:).

My skin sensitivity has been reduced by about 60%shock:

My flushing is more weekly than daily..............I am just past the week 5 mark!

My rosacea is certainly the vascular type, with the odd P & P!

Jsmile:

Melissa W

28th October 2009, 09:43 PM

Thanks Michael sidehug:

The unit you purchased looks very versatile. Fingers crossed it works well for you.

Stphn

29th October 2009, 04:10 PM

Judworth

29th October 2009, 04:22 PM

Wow. RLT seems really interesting.
I have fairly recently been reading the forums; I had 10 years ago dealt with Rosacea pretty aggressively; in fact to the point of total remission. Now, some symptoms have returned.

In regards to RLT, I keep seeing posts where people 'think it might be working, too early to really tell'.

Sometimes my symptoms nearly disappear. And I think, 'wow. what was i so worked up about? i don't need to pay hundreds of dollars for lasers and products and derms'. I'll think it's because of some vitamin i am taking, or that i'm getting more sleep... but then the symptoms come back, just as randomly.

And while I think the supplements, cleansers, etc. may help, the underlying cause still seems to remain elusive.

Rambling, sorry.

I guess my question is this: does anybody really think RLT is helping? Could it just be wishful thinking/placebo effect?

Thanks,

Stphn

A resounding YES!

I am just over 5 weeks into my treatment, I am/was a daily emotional flusher!

As for the placebo effect, if only rosacea could be calmed that easily!wink1:

My skin sensitivity has reduced by about 60% to the point that I can now put hairspray
on and perfume (a no go area before).

I have vascular rosacea, the intense flushing, swelling and acid-thrown-in-your-face type
pain.

Everyone is different, & I know that my sucess came quite early in the treatment, but it's
a slow journey for most & only part of the treatment!

Good luck!

Jsmile:

Stphn

29th October 2009, 05:19 PM

Thanks, Judworth. I will most definitely be looking into RLT. Curious: any P&P component to your rosacea? IF so, has RLT helped?

Many thanks,

Stphn

Judworth

30th October 2009, 07:58 AM

Thanks, Judworth. I will most definitely be looking into RLT. Curious: any P&P component to your rosacea? IF so, has RLT helped?

Many thanks,

Stphn

Hello again!

Yes, I have always had the odd P & P (in the early days quite alot on my forehead where
my severe pain from flushing was).

However, now that the flushing/inflammation has lessened I rarely get them!smile:

For me the more active my rosacea is, the more those **** crop up, but I wouldn't say they
have ever been my main concern.

My ocular rosacea is better too...............bounce:

Have a look at "Judworths RLT Journey" for a better update!

Jsmile:

Michael_V

31st October 2009, 11:05 PM

I went online and checked out all of the LED devices recommended in this thread.

Seemed like a lot of people liked the stuff Elixa sells, so I just ordered their LightWorks High Intensity Pulsed LED System:

http://www.elixa.com/light/lightworks.htm

Two things I liked about it:

(1) It has 660nm red lights on one side and 880nm NIR lights on the other, so nice flexibility.
(2) It is a handheld wand, which I think I would prefer to either holding a pack of cards to my face or sitting in front of a table (personal preference!). Also pretty important in my selection: I have a couple of injured tendons (elbow and ankle) that I would like to use this on. The wand configuration should make that easier.

Anyway, I'm pretty stoked to give this a shot. yes: I have had two IPL sessions so far with minimal improvement in baseline redness and no significant change in flushing. blush: I'm hoping this will help control things a bit better!

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I'll post my review once I've spent some time with it!

Just following up on my previous post. My handheld LED arrived yesterday (so speedy delivery) and so far I am pleased! grin:

Let's see, of the questions originally posed...

1 - Which LLLT unit do you use? The Lightworks High Intensity Pulsed LED System

2 - Where did you buy it? Elixa

3 - What is your opinion of the build quality of the unit? Made of plastic, but feels sturdy, and seems good quality for the price.

4 - How, and how often, do you use it? Well, I just got it yesterday, but I have already used it on my face twice (10 min last night and 10 min this morning) and on an injured elbow and ankle tendon once each for 30 minutes (it's default length).

5 - Do you apply it over cream or on clean skin? So far, right after washing before applying anything.

6 - What benefit have you experienced? Too soon to tell, so I will update this one later! It certainly didn't make anything worse. There may be a slight analgesic effect, as my tendons were noticeably less sore immediately following treatement.

7 - Tips or other comments. This unit has red 660 nm LEDs on one side and NIR 880 nm LEDs on the other. Very cool. Per the enclosed instructions, the red has approx 1 cm soft tissue penetration, while NIR has about 4 cm, so the former is better for skin, the latter for joints, muscles, and tendons. It also has seven available frequencies (660 and 880 are the wavelengths) that you can manually select or let the machine cycle through for you (5 minutes each for 30 minutes total).

Stphn

2nd November 2009, 03:38 AM

Judworth

2nd November 2009, 05:53 AM

Thanks again, Judworth, I will indeed look into your RLTalogue...

Just curious, does anybody know perhaps whether LLLT or laser treatments have any potential side effects? Could submitting ourselves to any of these forms of light/energy be carcinogenic at all?

I know this is a bit off topic, but the dialogue on this thread, among others, seems to be between very knowledgeable individuals with perhaps some scientific training.

Thanks,

Stphn

Hello Stphn,

I believe that Peter has been using RLT for about 10 yrs and says that is the main reason

for his remission (take a look at his threads they are very useful).

As for the potentential side effects, to date the general belief is that they are safe.

TBH, I personally think that RLT compared to the dilation of facial blood vessels, ocular

rosacea, facial swelling & depression somehow makes RLT the much safer option

(for me anyway!wink1:).

I hope that you find RLT a positive addition to you rosacea treatments.

Jsmile:

Stphn

2nd November 2009, 02:48 PM

Judworth-
That's definitely understandable.

Thanks,

S

Darcy47

2nd November 2009, 03:08 PM

Judworth-
That's definitely understandable.

Thanks,

S

For what it is worth Stphn: I have been using RLT for 3 weeks. I started out 5 minutes a day, then 6, and I'm up to 9 minutes a day twice a day. I have vascular rosacea like Judworth. I have had a couple of pestules in the past but that isn't my problem and they were always easily cleared up - I have none at the moment and haven't had them this outbreak except 2 six months ago. I am like Judworth: flushing/extreme swelling, redness and burning sensations and ocular.

I am on Clonidine and elidel. . .and continue with the RLT...I learned about RLT on this site and Melissa's and Judworth's info got me going on it.

ntec

3rd November 2009, 12:53 AM

My understanding of the science behind this is that the wavelengths used do NOT have an "Ionizing" affect ie they can NOT alter\mutate DNA molecules etc so in that respect they're safe .

kiwisamchi

3rd November 2009, 07:53 AM

Judworth

3rd November 2009, 08:01 AM

Hi,

I've been wanting to read up more about britebox-leds but their website isn't working anymore. Does anyone know the scoop? Have they changed web addresses or is this company no longer selling products? I can't seem to get them up online.

Thanks,
Sam

Hello Sam,

http://www.mortonmedical.co.uk/BriteBox~man~44.htm?utm_nooverride=1&gclid=COKU7a677p0CFWlr4wodTwhVMA

It might be worth contacting these to see what they say, they sell the Britebox products.

Jsmile:

kiwisamchi

3rd November 2009, 08:06 AM

Thanks, J

Will give that site a whirl.

Sam

Judworth

3rd November 2009, 09:14 AM

Thanks, J

Will give that site a whirl.

Sam

Please let me know how you get on!smile:

Michael_V

6th November 2009, 08:00 PM

Auburn

6th November 2009, 09:44 PM

Michael_V

7th November 2009, 01:10 AM

Hi Michael,

You may have noticed this, but just in case, I thought I'd mention that those two products have different wavelengths.

The Brightbox:

830nm Infrared
633nm Red

The Elixa:

880nm Infrared
660nm Red

Hmmm, thanks! That is good information to have. Do you think the slight differences in wavelength make a difference? I wonder why the Britebox would differ just that small bit from the conventional 660 and 880? Is this better or worse?

Michael_V

7th November 2009, 01:18 AM

Hi Michael,

You may have noticed this, but just in case, I thought I'd mention that those two products have different wavelengths.

The Brightbox:

830nm Infrared
633nm Red

The Elixa:

880nm Infrared
660nm Red

Oooh, I just answered my own question! Brightbox used the wavelengths described in this study:

A prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded, and split-face clinical study on LED phototherapy for skin rejuvenation: clinical, profilometric, histologic, ultrastructural, and biochemical evaluations and comparison of three different treatment settings.
J Photochem Photobiol B. 2007; 88(1):51-67 (ISSN: 1011-1344)

Lee SY; Park KH; Choi JW; Kwon JK; Lee DR; Shin MS; Lee JS; You CE; Park MY
Department of Dermatology, National Medical Center, 18-79, Euljiro 6-ga, Jung-ku, Seoul, Republic of Korea. drlsy96@hotmail.com

Light-emitting diodes (LEDs) are considered to be effective in skin rejuvenation. We investigated the clinical efficacy of LED phototherapy for skin rejuvenation through the comparison with three different treatment parameters and a control, and also examined the LED-induced histological, ultrastructural, and biochemical changes. Seventy-six patients with facial wrinkles were treated with quasimonochromatic LED devices on the right half of their faces. All subjects were randomly divided into four groups treated with either 830nm alone, 633nm alone, a combination of 830 and 633nm, or a sham treatment light, twice a week for four weeks. Serial photography, profilometry, and objective measurements of the skin elasticity and melanin were performed during the treatment period with a three-month follow-up period. The subject's and investigator's assessments were double-blinded. Skin specimens were evaluated for the histologic and ultrastructural changes, alteration in the status of matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) and their tissue inhibitors (TIMPs), and the changes in the mRNA levels of IL-1ss, TNF-alpha, ICAM-1, IL-6 and connexin 43 (Cx43), by utilizing specific stains, TEM, immunohistochemistry, and real-time RT-PCR, respectively. In the results, objectively measured data showed significant reductions of wrinkles (maximum: 36%) and increases of skin elasticity (maximum: 19%) compared to baseline on the treated face in the three treatment groups. Histologically, a marked increase in the amount of collagen and elastic fibers in all treatment groups was observed. Ultrastructural examination demonstrated highly activated fibroblasts, surrounded by abundant elastic and collagen fibers. Immunohistochemistry showed an increase of TIMP-1 and 2. RT-PCR results showed the mRNA levels of IL-1ss, TNF-alpha, ICAM-1, and Cx43 increased after LED phototherapy whereas that of IL-6 decreased. This therapy was well-tolerated by all patients with no adverse effects. We concluded that 830 and 633nm LED phototherapy is an effective approach for skin rejuvenation.

Anyone with firsthand experience with the Britebox?

Michael_V

7th November 2009, 01:31 AM

One more very brief abstract concerning these particular wavelengths:

ONE MECHANISM BEHIND LED PHOTOTHERAPY FOR WOUND HEALING AND SKIN REJUVENATION: KEY ROLE OF THE MAST CELL

R Glen Calderhead MSc PhD(MedSci) Japan Medical Laser Laboratory, Tokyo, Japan

Light-emitting diodes (LEDs) have attracted a lot of attention in light-only skin rejuvenation and wound healing with an 830 nm/633 nm combination.... the 830 nm-mediated photoaccelerated degranulation of mast cells in both LED phototherapy for skin rejuvenation, and acceleration and control of the inflammatory process after an actual wound, is quite possibly one of the key elements in light-only LED photorejuvenation and wound healing when forming part of a combined 830 nm / 633 nm LED phototherapy regimen.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Auburn-NH!

Judworth

7th November 2009, 07:34 AM

Oooh, I just answered my own question! Brightbox used the wavelengths described in this study:

A prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blinded, and split-face clinical study on LED phototherapy for skin rejuvenation: clinical, profilometric, histologic, ultrastructural, and biochemical evaluations and comparison of three different treatment settings.
J Photochem Photobiol B. 2007; 88(1):51-67 (ISSN: 1011-1344)

Lee SY; Park KH; Choi JW; Kwon JK; Lee DR; Shin MS; Lee JS; You CE; Park MY
Department of Dermatology, National Medical Center, 18-79, Euljiro 6-ga, Jung-ku, Seoul, Republic of Korea. drlsy96@hotmail.com

Light-emitting diodes (LEDs) are considered to be effective in skin rejuvenation. We investigated the clinical efficacy of LED phototherapy for skin rejuvenation through the comparison with three different treatment parameters and a control, and also examined the LED-induced histological, ultrastructural, and biochemical changes. Seventy-six patients with facial wrinkles were treated with quasimonochromatic LED devices on the right half of their faces. All subjects were randomly divided into four groups treated with either 830nm alone, 633nm alone, a combination of 830 and 633nm, or a sham treatment light, twice a week for four weeks. Serial photography, profilometry, and objective measurements of the skin elasticity and melanin were performed during the treatment period with a three-month follow-up period. The subject's and investigator's assessments were double-blinded. Skin specimens were evaluated for the histologic and ultrastructural changes, alteration in the status of matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) and their tissue inhibitors (TIMPs), and the changes in the mRNA levels of IL-1ss, TNF-alpha, ICAM-1, IL-6 and connexin 43 (Cx43), by utilizing specific stains, TEM, immunohistochemistry, and real-time RT-PCR, respectively. In the results, objectively measured data showed significant reductions of wrinkles (maximum: 36%) and increases of skin elasticity (maximum: 19%) compared to baseline on the treated face in the three treatment groups. Histologically, a marked increase in the amount of collagen and elastic fibers in all treatment groups was observed. Ultrastructural examination demonstrated highly activated fibroblasts, surrounded by abundant elastic and collagen fibers. Immunohistochemistry showed an increase of TIMP-1 and 2. RT-PCR results showed the mRNA levels of IL-1ss, TNF-alpha, ICAM-1, and Cx43 increased after LED phototherapy whereas that of IL-6 decreased. This therapy was well-tolerated by all patients with no adverse effects. We concluded that 830 and 633nm LED phototherapy is an effective approach for skin rejuvenation.

Anyone with firsthand experience with the Britebox?

Hello Micheal,

I have been using the Britebox model for almost 7 weeks (the REVIVE red/infared one)
and if you read my "Judworth's RLT Journey" you will see just how much progress I am
making!smile:

Thank you Auburn N-H for your input.

Jsmile:

Melissa W

7th November 2009, 12:49 PM

Okay, really liking my handheld LED from Elixa, and will continue to use it for travel (and tendons!). But think I want a full face model.

The two I am considering are:

The DPL from Elixa: http://www.elixa.com/light/facial.htm

or

The Britebox Revive: http://www.britebox-led.co.uk/rosacea/index.php

I think I prefer the look (and apparent build quality) of the Britebox, but at about 800 USD it costs more than twice as much.

Any recommendations???

Hi Michael,
Corinna (T.P) recommended the Elixa unit and I used it as well and was impressed by the unit. Sadly, I reacted to the warmth emitted by the infrared lights so I was unable to continue using it but if you do not react to that I recommend it as it is a nice little unit. I never tried the britebox so cannot comment on that except to say Judy likes it very much.

Here is an excerpt from Corinna's comments regarding the Elixa unit:
http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=12724&highlight=elixa

post #2

Best wishes,
Melissa

PS Glad it is going so well for you Judy!

Auburn

7th November 2009, 11:35 PM

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Auburn-NH!

My pleasure smile:. I shall thank you for making those two studies available. I just sent a copy of them to a friend who's also shopping for a good RLT unit.

Judworth has had remarkable results with the Britebox. I was a bit skeptical at first (even warned her about a possible placebo effect since she seemed to be responding so well that early in the treatment) but, now that she's been using this product for almost seven weeks with excellent results, I have to think that the effectiveness of this product lies in the infrared/red LED combo at those particular wavelengths.

Judworth

8th November 2009, 12:36 PM

Hi Michael,
Corinna (T.P) recommended the Elixa unit and I used it as well and was impressed by the unit. Sadly, I reacted to the warmth emitted by the infrared lights so I was unable to continue using it but if you do not react to that I recommend it as it is a nice little unit. I never tried the britebox so cannot comment on that except to say Judy likes it very much.

Here is an excerpt from Corinna's comments regarding the Elixa unit:
http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=12724&highlight=elixa

post #2

Best wishes,
Melissa

PS Glad it is going so well for you Judy!

Thank you Melissa,sidehug:

BTW, I don't find that the Britebox emits much heat...........if my face feels a bit tingly or
fragile at certain times I just sit further away!

Jx

Michael_V

9th November 2009, 02:27 AM

Hello Micheal,

I have been using the Britebox model for almost 7 weeks (the REVIVE red/infared one)
and if you read my "Judworth's RLT Journey" you will see just how much progress I am
making!smile:

Thank you Auburn N-H for your input.

Jsmile:

Hey, Jsmile:!

Yes, I have been following your progress! That's what turned me on to the Britebox in the first place. I placed my order for the "Revive" red/NIR unit this weekend. Hoping there won't be a (USA) voltage issue, as I ordered from the Morton UK site. Meanwhile, I am using my handheld Sota LED twice daily for my face and once daily for my tendons.

This technology is very promising. Surprising more people don't know about it!

Judworth

9th November 2009, 06:44 AM

Hey, Jsmile:!

Yes, I have been following your progress! That's what turned me on to the Britebox in the first place. I placed my order for the "Revive" red/NIR unit this weekend. Hoping there won't be a (USA) voltage issue, as I ordered from the Morton UK site. Meanwhile, I am using my handheld Sota LED twice daily for my face and once daily for my tendons.

This technology is very promising. Surprising more people don't know about it!

Hello again!hi:

Wonderful! Did you ask about the voltage?

I would 'pass on their free cream samples supplied' (for your face anyway) they look nice,
but personally I wouldn't chance it!

Take it easy when it first arrives................I didn'tblush: & my face was sore!

The distance seems to make a big difference to me too, the 8" away is fine.

Wishing you every success with it in yourboxing:against rosacea!

Jsmile:

Peter

9th November 2009, 12:39 PM

This technology is very promising. Surprising more people don't know about it!

They do.

I first posted about my success with it on the RSG around 2000 and when I joined on here in 2005

Since then several of us including Banshee,TP and IowaDavid have attempted to help others interested in trying it out.

We did have to pass through some deliberate scaremongering from one idiot a few years back but it’s generally accepted that using red light is very safe and can be very effective. It’s still very much experimental as to how much it will help your rosacea and you do have to persevere with it for many months of daily use to reap maximum benefit.

Good luck when your lamp arrives.

Michael_V

9th November 2009, 07:23 PM

Peter,

Thank you for your work making this known! It seems it is underutilized in the rosacea community!

On another note...

I was thinking about this article:

ONE MECHANISM BEHIND LED PHOTOTHERAPY FOR WOUND HEALING AND SKIN REJUVENATION: KEY ROLE OF THE MAST CELL

R Glen Calderhead MSc PhD(MedSci) Japan Medical Laser Laboratory, Tokyo, Japan

Light-emitting diodes (LEDs) have attracted a lot of attention in light-only skin rejuvenation and wound healing with an 830 nm/633 nm combination.... the 830 nm-mediated photoaccelerated degranulation of mast cells in both LED phototherapy for skin rejuvenation, and acceleration and control of the inflammatory process after an actual wound, is quite possibly one of the key elements in light-only LED photorejuvenation and wound healing when forming part of a combined 830 nm / 633 nm LED phototherapy regimen.

While I still have to read the entire article more carefully, it seems that mast cells play an important role in the healing process stimulated by phototherapy. If so, rosaceans taking mast cell stabilizers (or antihistamines) might experience a "blunted" response relative to those not taking these medicines.

Just an idea...

Peter

10th November 2009, 12:45 PM

Hello Michael

No problem.

Well you could be right about it being underutilised but there is plenty of information on the main Forums now about the benefits of red light with rosacea and the success stories. It’s really up to the individual to decide if they think it could help them and whether they are prepared to experiment.

Here is another article written by Adrian Warburton – a scientist - that you might find interesting.

http://rosacea-research.org/wiki/index.php?title=Phototherapy:_a_guide_to_the_pitfa lls_of_terminology

Thanks

Peter

Michael_V

10th November 2009, 10:43 PM

Good article, Peter! Interesting about the bacterial porphyrins and red light being antimicrobial as well as anti-inflammatory and pro-collagen. Also implies that the small difference between 633 and 660nm is probably insignificant, meaning both are likely to have equally beneficial effects.

11th November 2009, 11:17 AM

You might see the odd website making extravagant claims for a particular wavelength but it will likely be hogwash. LEDs have largely been produced at certain standard wavelengths. The notion that something falling a little outside those standards is of questionable benefit, is no less peculiar than claiming that a length of 2.6m wood is less useful than the standard lengths (2.4 or 2.7m) readily available.

Of course, there certainly seems to be a point on the scale below which the rosacean might reasonably expect to see no benefits - though it is of note that an esteemed IPL practitioner has previously advocated the use of yellow (and - I dimly recall - some have used green, perhaps with success).

Likely, there is also a point higher up the scale beyond which no benefits will be conferred. What is that point? Noteworthy that a manufacturer, looking to produce a rosacea specific array, has chosen 790-900nm and so on..

http://rosacea-support.org/treating-rosacea-with-infrared-light-patent.html

How high could one go? There are good reasons for using red. There may be better reasons for using infrared. There may be an argument for cycling through different wavelengths. And so on..

Michael_V

24th November 2009, 05:18 PM

Another follow-up:

I got my Britebox Revive in the mail yesterday! Initial impressions:

The build quality is very good. Feels sturdy and well made. It is bigger than I thought it would be, standing easily twice the height of my head!

It is quite bright but the built in fan keeps it cool and doesn't make much noise.

I like that it turns itself off after the recommended 15 minute treatment.

Also folds up into a small suitcase for portability (of sorts), although again it is fairly large.

I have used it once so far. Felt good. Relaxing. Not warm. Skin a little tight afterward. Woke up with a few tiny papules on my jaw line. Not sure if that's related or not?

Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will help!

Melissa W

24th November 2009, 09:10 PM

Good luck Michael!

If you are up to it why don't you start a thread detailing your experience with the Britebox therapy?

As for the small outbreak of p&p's a few of us experienced this symptom at the beginning of low level light therapy as well.

Best wishes,
Melissa

Michael_V

25th November 2009, 01:17 AM

happycat

25th January 2010, 09:44 AM

Hi all.

I have been using a device called Anti Ageing Lightstim which has infrared, amber and red leds in it. I used it last winter for my roascea and it improved the appearance of my face and made some of the papules and pustules dissapear.
I have started using it again this winter but it doesnt seem to bring any positive results at all. My rosacea is getting worse, I have red spots everywhere.

The company I have bought it from, Lightstim, also have a special light for rosacea, called Rosacea Lightstim which has blue leds in it and it's suppose to be wonderful for treating rosacea.
Has anyone used it or heard good things about it?

Peter

25th January 2010, 01:40 PM

Hi

Are you sure it’s your lamp that’s making you worse and not something else that you might have changed? Ideally if last winter it was helping then it would have been better to have just carried on and not stopped, so perhaps you need to use it a bit longer and your skin will improve again? Could be worthwhile seeing your GP or Dermatologist and explain what’s happened to see if they have an explanation or advice.

I haven’t heard of the other unit but there are plenty of people jumping on the bandwagon now with light treatments for rosacea. We know that red light can have an anti-inflammatory action with rosacea but the blue light was mainly used in combination with red for treating acne. I used both red and blue initially with no problems but I then switched to all red but I know some others who have tried blue found they reacted to it.

We can all get different results with any rosacea treatment so you may have to experiment. I really would recommend talking to a professional first just in case you may be better suited to another form of treatment.

Good luck

Peter

happycat

25th January 2010, 02:45 PM

Hi Peter.

I really dont know what is good and what makes my skin bad at the moment. I just cannot find any logical explanation on why it sometimes gets better and sometimes it worsens.
I know for sure that it gets worse in the winter.Cry:Cry:

My GP had a look at it and said that the hair follicles seem to be inflamed and red and prescribed Skinoren. The dermatologist said it was acne and prescribed Roaccutane.
mad1:

With the Lightstim, well, I stopped using it in the summer because my skin was at it's best without any prescription creams or treatments and I thought that was it, cured, but when the wet/cold weather came back, so did my red pimples.

I will carry on using my lamp, maybe in time it will make a difference.

Peter

25th January 2010, 03:46 PM

Hello happycat

Some people do find that their skin improves in the summer and worsens in the winter. Rosacea is known to wax and wane, can remain dormant for periods and then suddenly take off again for no apparent reason.

Have you actually been diagnosed with acne or rosacea or maybe even both?

Some people have found that low dose Accutane helps control their rosacea whilst other have found that at a higher dose it can trigger it off.

Do you live in the UK?

Peter

happycat

25th January 2010, 05:39 PM

Yes, I live in UK - Scotland.

I have never been diagnosed, the GP never really said what it was, just prescribed various creams: metronidazole cream last year and skinoren a few weeks ago.
The dermatologist said it was acne, I actually believe it's acne rosacea because the red pimples always appear in the same place, they do not have white heads and they stay there for ever.
Accutane sounds like a really nasty thing, I don't want to try that, there must be something else out there.

My skin seems to get better in the summer and also when I am away from home (as I said in a different post here on this forum).
I dont know, all the things that helped last year: metronidazole, light therapy, they make no difference now. Cry:

Peter

25th January 2010, 08:36 PM

Hi

Pity you don't live nearer London as I would recommend Dr Tony Chu.

The key factor is to get a proper diagnosis of what your problem is from an expert and I would suggest you get your GP to refer you back to the Dermatologist. If he / she said you had acne rather than rosacea then you need to ask him what is the rationale behind this. The term Acne Rosacea is no longer used so it's either Acne or Rosacea.

Without seeing your face I'm just guessing, so you need your Dermatologist to spend more time with you discussing your case and it's appropriate treatment. If he / she doesn't seem interested or helpful complain to your GP and ask to see another one. Acne can often improve in the summer but why your skin also gets better when you are away from home is odd, unless you do have an allergy to something in your house? There are tests that could be done but are you sure you are not allergic to your cats?

Let us know how you get on.

Peter

happycat

17th February 2010, 10:20 AM

Judworth

17th February 2010, 11:15 AM

Ok, I went to my GP (again) and was sent home with a prescription for antibiotics to be taken long term. blink:
I was not told what it was, she just vaguely said: 'this acne type thing' needs antibiotics bla bla, without even a close look at my face. Las time I suggested tha I wanted to see a dermatologist I was told that you're only sent to see the derm when the GP doesnt know what it is and if nothing works. mad1:

Still looking around at various acne lamps, I am determined that if I do get another lamp it should have blue leds in it.

Sounds similar to what happened to me, except as I had private health insurance at the

time my GP referred me to a derm who was less than useless & he too prescribed anti-B's!

I have heard that the red/blue RLT units are indeed best for acne rosacea.

What is going on with GP's/Derms???

Good luck!

Jsmile:

happycat

17th February 2010, 01:48 PM

Judworth

17th February 2010, 02:20 PM

I don't know what is happening in the NHS, maybe they just want to save money and don't bother much with health/skin problems which are not crucial. For us they are, of course.
I suppose I could ask to see a private dermatologist and I would be happy to pay for the consultation, but imagine if they too prescribed antibiotics- what a waste of time.

I am not saying that antibiotics are wrong, I know there are people with really bad acne and when nothing else works then oral antibiotics will have to be taken.

I am going to go back using my led device with red, amber and infrared lights. Fingers crossed.

My Sister has acne rosacea & has been on anti-b's for years now, she swears by them,
although she got the lumps and spots mainly and none of the inflammation or flushing
so it suits her (even if she has been on them soooooooo long!).

I took my anti-b's for about a month & they did nothing.............also I didn't like the idea
of them, with my history of hyperthyroidism my immune system is poor enough as it is!

Hope that the RLT gives you some success!

Jsmile:

happycat

18th February 2010, 03:17 PM

I have been looking around to try and find a good value led device with blue and red lights.

Well (please don't laugh) but what I have found on ebay is a panel with blue and red leds which is used to help the house plants grow, they are in the same wavelenghts as the leds used in the skincare units Red (620 - 630nm) , Blue(430 - 470nm).
I am not going to post a link here, as I don't know whether I am allowed to, but there seem to be many panels like these in various sizes selling on ebay.

Do you guys think it would do the job as well as a britebox or other device created specifically for skincare?