Red Light Therapy – the LEDMAN Custom Array Review

[Twickle Purple]

This is the fourth and final unit to arrive, a custom array made by the LEDMAN (http://theledman.net)

See the Dimalux Review here. (http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewtopic.php?t=4118)
See the Photon Tender Skin Machine TPB-300 review here. (http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewtopic.php?t=4133)
See the Warp10 review here. (http://forum.rosaceagroup.org/viewtopic.php?p=29268#29268)


This came today. I was really excited about this unit, I had made the request to two manufacturers and the LEDMAN built it. It has alternating 660nm and 880nm LEDs set into hinged panels. I am very impressed with the finished product! I’m going to quickly post some pics for now and follow up with info. As this is custom, there won't be as much manufacturer details. This custom array cost $840USD.

Out of the box:

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/LEDMAN.jpg


Back of the powersupply (the front has hi and lo setting):

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/LEDMAN-Power.jpg


Profile, it is much thinner than I thought, which is great!:

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/LEDMAN-profiile.jpg


The pattern of LEDs is just right, the panels curve perfectly.

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/LEDMAN-Interweave.jpg


Pics showing what it is built like:

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/LEDMAN-fabrication.jpg

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/LEDMAN-Curved-off.jpg


Turned on:

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/LEDMAN-alt-lit.jpg

[redhotoz]

Hi TP

This looks like a nice, neat unit. I'm confused as to why you ordered this one on top of the Dimalux though?

This unit appears to have less lights than my array but does have a mix of different LEDs. I look forward to you giving the specs on what was made up for you. How will it be mounted for use? Are the LEDs curved so that they can sit nicely together when the panels are placed in an arch shape? With the hi/lo setting, is that for switching between the different types of LEDs?

Sorry, I know, lots of questions. I probably have more! LOL

Jen

[Twickle Purple]

Hi Jen,

I like your questions! They are very good questions. The lights are staggered so they do not touch when the panels curve inwards, as well the wavelength of LED are checkerboarded so it is 660 then 880 then 660 then 880, etc. You can make that out a bit in the lit photo, the 880 ones do not shine red so it will look like only one row is light up.

As for the high and low settings, V, the LEDMAN says, "When the unit is on high setting then the 660 LEDs are running at about 25 ma so if you look on the spec sheet you can see the output on the high setting. aprox. 4987 mcd ... On low setting the 660 LEDs are running at 20 ma" So I am to use it on low when it is directly on my skin and high when I set it on a surface and am a bit of distance away. I'm of course going to push that and try it on high eventually ;)

This was fabricated for 'body' application, it curves both ways so has incredible flexibility. I will use this directly on my hip, back, shoulder and leg, etc. I had a wee bit of a skydiving incident about 10 years back. The door malfunctioned and fwooop I was out faster than a blink. The exit contorted my body as I spun out and below the plane and I ended up tearing most of the connection points on my left leg and foot. It was my first jump (and my last) and I cannot speak highly enough on the benefit of good ground school training!! The leg is always a problem and when I do shift work on my bike it becomes limiting, the fatigue stops me from longer trips. I am hoping this flexible array will undo some long standing damage. I'll let you know. I feel it everyday so it will be obvious for me if it works. It has a really long cord which is going to give me freedom when moving it about for application.

Twickle Purple

[hozer2k]

This one looks like a great bang for the buck, why havent more people tried it? Can you just sit in front of it like that or do you need something to mount it? I am interested in the all red, I think they have that from what I can tell on their website. I think I may consider this one in the future if things go well with my current trial.

[Twickle Purple]

This one looks like a great bang for the buck, why havent more people tried it? Can you just sit in front of it like that or do you need something to mount it? I am interested in the all red, I think they have that from what I can tell on their website. I think I may consider this one in the future if things go well with my current trial.

The fellow who made it was so pleased that he is making one for himself and will post pics for folks wanting to go this route. Part of what I do is industrial design and I work with folks who can make what I need. So once I saw the flat array it was just a natural to expand on it -- so to speak.

The idea was to have something that will follow any curves and wrap the leg. This one is going to be for body 'parts' but I was chatting with one lady who will be having one done up and these can easily be incorporated with adjustable lamps, the ones with tension arms and clamp bases would be good. There's a lady who posted today who has more or less done that very thing with her home made array.

[Twickle Purple]

I tried this out last night for the first time. I was forewarned the 880nm LEDs can generate some warmth, so urge anyone considering an array with a lot of LEDs to keep that in mind.

I used it on my hip, I draped it directly onto the skin and turned it on high. Within a few minutes I noticed the gentle warmth, not enough to call it heat, but it is discernable. For this use I found it a soothing and beneficial aspect of treatment. It will take a number of treatments before I can gauge whether it will have an impact on the damage to this leg.

----

I just used it on my tummy (I have a bad eczema rash there) and notice that the screws get hot, not a problem unless they come in contact with the skin. I added some small self-adhesive felt pads which did the trick keeping the flesh from coming in contact with the screws. I am going to keep it to the low setting on the more sensitive areas of skin.

[Twickle Purple]

I took a shot just before I did my tummy and another shot now, 4 hours later.

The light is different because the first one was daylight in a blue bathroom and the second with incandescent light in a goldish colour bathroom.

The rash is diminished by about half in most areas, and the skin is much less angry. I will do this again earlier in the day so that I can get better side by side comparisons. I don't have many areas that are such large expanses of skin and hopefully I will run out of rash soon :) I'll post more consistently lit pics over the weekends.

This is one treatment comparison side by side:
a 4 hour lapse from application with this new array
on eczematous skin.

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/CompTum.jpg

[Twickle Purple]

Next morning, daylight, same room as the first shot, so the images have more consistent lighting.

One 10 minute 660/880nm session, directly on skin set on high:
Pictures show difference 20 hours later.
Before the treatment is on left and 20 hours after the treatment is on the right:

http://www.anniroc.com/TP/Devices/CompTum20hrs.jpg

[hozer2k]

Looks really promising, thanks for sharing. I really like this unit and it seems to be really affordable considering the alternatives.

Any chance you could "tape" off or just treat one side of it. This way the contrast can be shown better and is less dependent on lighting. Glad to see you are getting results, it looks like its really worth it for you.

[Twickle Purple]

It is worth it. No I am not going to tape anything off. I've been on steroids over 40 years, and if one treatment gives me these results, where steroids have not, I will gladly put away the steroids as quickly as I can. I only want relief and I have shown with these pics that I am getting it. It works for me. The results are very much in keeping with what I had expected based on what I've read. This is really remarkable and I see a future without steroids which means a quality of life and old age that I had not dared hope for previously.

[hozer2k]

Well if it has any kind of effect like this on rosacea it will be great. To me, it shows at least that is has the potential to help for skin conditions so it seems logical it may benefit rosacea as well. You seem real happy about it, good luck.

[Twickle Purple]

You seem real happy about it, good luck.

My husband and I are relieved, and that is very welcomed. The professional and social limitations brought about by my skin conditions have changed the course of our lives. We live remotely from all our clients, no one has ever seen me and I will not fly out for meetings. I live in a stunning location but remain house bound the majority of time.

I hope that what I show and post captures the interest of anyone in the relevant area of research and development. I want this stuff to be looked into by as many as possible.

I am grateful for the forum, I came here looking for information on Gemini in June and stumbled upon Jen and IowaDavid's, et al, posts on RLT. It sparked interest and now, a few short months later, I am filled with an excitement and hope that nothing has been able to offer before.

[Twickle Purple]

This site is geared to veterinarians, as they have been using this since the early 70s. Anyone interested in LLLT should read articles regarding this usage, this is akin to animals 'trials' and has the most information. It also references human studies.

http://www.emersonww.com/LaserFAQs.htm

An excerpt:

Q. Are there any negative effects from LLLT?

A. In all the years that low level lasers have been tested in research and clinical applications, no adverse side effects or negative impacts have been reported. This is why the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) classifies lasers like the Respond Laser Therapy Systems as “Non-Significant Risk” devices, requiring a minimum of safety precautions. The only precaution is that which discourages direct viewing of the laser beam. Care should be exercised not to stare into the laser beam or to point it at the eyes, and the use of safety glasses is recommended.

Q. How long have low level lasers been used for therapy?

A. Low level lasers have been used by doctors in hospitals and clinics in Europe on both humans and animals since the early 1970’s. In fact, the first studies reporting positive effects of laser on wound healing in rats were reported by the Hungarian researcher Andre Mester as early as 1968. In the United States, therapeutic lasers have been used by veterinarians since the late 1970’s. Just recently the U.S. FDA has given marketing approval to laser therapy devices for human use, beginning the trend to widespread use of LLLT in the United States.

Q. In simple terms, what does LLLT do?

A. A huge amount of research data has been collected on the effects of laser therapy (over 2000 double-blind studies) both in laboratory and clinical settings. The following excerpts demonstrate some of the most significant results: (Check the bibliography if you would like to do some in-depth reading.)

1. Wound healing is significantly improved by low level laser therapy, even non-healing wounds, thought to be due to the increased level of collagen brought about by laser treatment. Collagen, the chief constituent of connective tissue, is recognized as the most important ingredient in wound healing. See Dr. Andre F. Mester and Dr. Adam Mester, LLLT and Wound Healing, John Wiley and Sons, Ltd., 1989.

2. Increases in blood flow by means of capillary and arterial widening of the lumen of blood vessels, vasodilatation. See Dr. Toshiaki Kami, Effects of Low Power Diode Lasers, Annals of Plastic Surgery, Vol. 14, No. 3, March 1985. (Dr. Kami’s work also showed that the laser light significantly increased the formation of new capillary paths in treated areas, which resulted in increased circulation.)

3. Marked improvement in re-establishment of the lymphatic system after trauma, resulting in reduction of swelling. This is due to the evacuation of dirty proteins by the regenerated lymphatic vessels. (See Dr. P.C. Lieven, The Influence of Laser on the Lymphatic Systems, Presented at the American Society for Laser Medicine and Surgery, Eight Annual Meeting, Dallas, Texas 4/25-4/28, 1988)

4. Laser light stimulates release of the body’s own killing chemicals such as endorphins and enkephalins Facilitating natural, long lasting pain relief. Dr. Wolfgang Rauermeister, Director of Pain Control Center at Parkwood Hospital, Massachusetts, USA has provided the best explanation of these pain reduction capabilities:
“The laser light stimulates the release of the body’s own pain killing chemicals such as endorphins and enkephalins from the brain, adrenal glands, and other areas, thus facilitating long lasting pain relief.”

Low level laser therapy is an effective therapy, working in harmony with the body’s own healing and relieving mechanisms. There are no harmful side effects reported from laser therapy.



----------


An LED and a laser device using 660nm wavelength light will create the same response in the body. The difference is coherent and non-coherent light.

Here's a bit from this site (http://www.redlighthealing.com/facts.htm) that explains it succinctly:

Monochromatic single wavelength light can only be produced in two ways - Low Power/Cold Laser (coherent light) or with a powerful light-emitting diode, LED (non-coherent light). Although much of the low power laser research is directly applicable to the use of LED's, LED's non-coherent light is entirely safe.

Dr Tiina Karu, of the Laser Technology Centre of Russia, found in the late 80's that the non-coherent light (LED's) was found to be as effective as coherent light and without the risk associated with cold lasers.

[ninal]

I was hoping these links could be repaired, I'd really like to see the pictures of this thing.
I'm hoping that perhaps I can get something like this built, but perhaps on a smaller scale, as I am looking to spend, at max, about $400.
But yeah, any chance these picture links can be fixed?

[redhotoz]

I was hoping these links could be repaired, I'd really like to see the pictures of this thing.
I'm hoping that perhaps I can get something like this built, but perhaps on a smaller scale, as I am looking to spend, at max, about $400.
But yeah, any chance these picture links can be fixed?

These photos were up-loaded by Twickle Purple from her own computer. Unfortunately, TP no longer posts here, so it is unlikely that she will put them up again. I could ask her but it would be a lot of work to do so.

Perhaps you could contact the LEDMAN directly and ask if they could make up something smaller for $400? Let us know if you do.

Jen

[ninal]

There they go, that does look great.
Maybe I will contact LED, that thing just looks great.

[redhotoz]

Thanks for putting the photos back up TP! :D

Yes, the set up does look fabulous!

Do let us know how you get on ninal.

Jen

[man_from_mars]

This site is geared to veterinarians, as they have been using
...

2. Increases in blood flow by means of capillary and arterial widening of the lumen of blood vessels, vasodilatation. See Dr. Toshiaki Kami, Effects of Low Power Diode Lasers, Annals of Plastic Surgery, Vol. 14, No. 3, March 1985. (Dr. Kami’s work also showed that the laser light significantly increased the formation of new capillary paths in treated areas, which resulted in increased circulation.)

.

Hi TP,

The above line looks kind of worrisome to me
Seems to be the exact opposite of what I need
since I already have a few telengiecstacias from steroid rosacea.

Do you agree?

mfm

[Melissa W]

Hi mfm,

I'm not Corinna but thought I could answer until she comes back on to the Forum.
No one really knows the exact mechanism by which the LLLT works and it is thought it encourages the growth of normal blood vessels and what we have is too many abnormal blood vessels. So it is thought that the RLT allows the normalization of our blood vessels and the normalization of our flushing responses.

Best wishes,
Melissa

[man_from_mars]

I don't know - since mine are already on the outside so to speak
hate to see them get any stronger and wider

all I can think of is those guys from Underneath Planet of the Apes shock:

[Melissa W]

When you get a chance check this link out.

http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=11060


and

http://www.rosaceagroup.org/The_Rosacea_Forum/showthread.php?t=10694

[Melissa W]

I don't know - since mine are already on the outside so to speak
hate to see them get any stronger and wider

all I can think of is those guys from Underneath Planet of the Apes shock:

laugh:

[Melissa W]

This is an informative read.

http://rosacea-research.org/wiki/index.php/Red_LED_Lamps_&_Other_Forms_of_Low-Level_Light_Therapy

Enjoy.

BTW Don't women love big hairy gorillas?

[man_from_mars]

this guy is a real lady killer
http://actionheroes.homestead.com/files/beneath_planet_apes_mutant.jpg

[Melissa W]

This guy sure is!


http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/1gorillaDM1803_468x586.jpg

[Twickle Purple]

I leave the room for a moment and look what you two get yourselves up to! Honestly kids. wtf:

MFM, there's been comments and supposition on the blood flow/vessel formation question, and many good responses which you likely have come across as well. I've used RLT (mainly the Dimalux and various hand-helds on my face) coming onto 2 years now and from what I experience, and understand, encouraging healthy vessel formation is what we need to do the work of our defective ones. The resulting increased blood flow assures enhanced circulation and all the other positive cellular-functions which go along with that. We want healthy vessels that function properly, and we need healthy circulation. I hope this makes sense -- if it doesn't there's not much more I can add to it though.

It does not promote or aggravate pre-existing telangiectasia.

[man_from_mars]

Thanks Corinna,

Unfortunate victim of "a little info is dangerous"

mfm

[Twickle Purple]

There's alot to absorb on the subject, and not enough good documentation. I've added a new post to this thread (http://rosacea-support.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=449&p=4684#p4684) which goes into the guts of it a bit more. Check it out when you have a mo.

[man_from_mars]

It does not promote or aggravate pre-existing telangiectasia.

I could take a hundred moments rereading most of the articles
and still not have a clue what they are saying :study:

Would much rather take your word since you've had the first hand experience
for so long.:albino:

Thanks,
mfm

[man_from_mars]

where the hell did that rabbit come from?
oh well too late now

[Twickle Purple]

It means yer a clever bunny. wink1: