Howdy.

[s-kid]

Well hello, some of the others asked if I would post up some pics, so uhh I suppose I'll get right into it and post the pics eh.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k176/clink_2006/PICT0156.jpg
Wow, could there have been a closer shot? :lol:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k176/clink_2006/PICT0155.jpg
My left eye is feeling really dry at the moment, as you can probably see.

That's all I suppose :)

[redhotoz]

Hi s-kid

Thanks for posting your photos. It does look like the red beast. At least you are being proactive about it at an early stage.

Best of luck and do keep us up-dated with what you decided to try.

Jen

[s-kid]

Hi, just an update after using Metrocream and a few months of aging :lol:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k176/clink_2006/PICT0047-1.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k176/clink_2006/2.jpg
My redness has gone down a bit (although you can't really see it in contrast with the other photos) but my flaking has gone up :( I've also lost about 10kgs from the new diet \:D/
Anyway, just wanted to post a bit of progress so I can look back on it later.

[redhotoz]

Yeah, it is kind of hard to tell from the photos if there has been improvement. Your eyes look a lot clearer now, or less sore anyway. Have your eyes improved? If so, I imagine this would be due to the diet.

Thanks for up-dating.

Jen

[s-kid]

My eyes have improved somewhat. They will still itch every now and then but better than before. :D

[phlika29]

You can definately tell that you've lost weight, nice cheek bone definition. :) Do you take any supplements such as grape seed extract? Remind me do you flush at all?

[s-kid]

:D At the moment I'm taking fish oil (was taking zinc but ran out) and just eating a really strict diet. I do flush but recently it's becomming more physically visible which is making me a little more worried about flushing in public, but I think it's also a sign that my base redness has faded slightly.

[phlika29]

Well if I were you I would definately carry on with what you are doing as your skin looks nice and even and clear. If you can afford to I would recomend either adding grape seed extract or pycnogenol tablets (available from health food shops and online) as they are good at strengthening the blood vessels and capillaries against the damage done by flushing/rosacea.

[s-kid]

Thankyou, I've been looking into grape seed lately as well as emu oil, I'll be sure to update when I eventually try them, I also have my first dermatologist visit on the 13th (unlucky? the gods really don't like me), so I will see what he has to say.

[phlika29]

Good luck, let us know what they prescribe :wink:

[s-kid]

Ok, so I'm back from the dermatologist and Dr Lee has prescribed a coal tar solution for my scalp and face (keep in mind I have barely any dandruff or dryness on my scalp) and also salicylic acid.

The part I am worried about is that the derm told me outright, I don't have rosacea. :-k He explained my symptoms with a case of psoriasis. Now I was quite convinced I had rosacea, with permanant redness, and flushing and now this guy tells me it's psoriasis, I'm extremely confused. I asked him about whether flushing accompanies psoriasis and he started talking about redness, so I asked again, and he seemed a little annoyed that I wasn't trusting his diagnosis. As I said, I'm really confused, I payed this guy a lot of money for a 10 minute meeting in which he told me I have different disorder with less than 30 seconds of inspecting my skin, is this normal for derms?

So now I'm worried about taking the tar and salicylic acid, are these harmful to rosacea? Because I don't want to just ruin all of my diet and weeks of using metrocream and have my condition go back to the way it was. I know this guy is a professional and I should trust his judgement but it just seemed as if he wasn't even listening to me, especially when I was telling him about how it was worse before using metrocream...argh, sorry for the long post, I guess I'm right back where I started, scared and confused :(

Any help very much appreciated.

[phlika29]

I would trust your instincts. Only you live with your skin 24 hours a day and unfortunaley alot of derms seem quite ignorant of rosacea especially in someone so young.

With that in mind I wouln't completely ignore what he says but tread with caution. Perhaps you could try the coal tar in your hair at first and see what it does. If this is okay and you are seeing some benefit then I would test it out on one small bit on your face (forehead) and see the results. Make sure you trial it for a while and not just a day.

I have never used the products prescribed but I'm sure if you check back in the threads on seb derm etc other peole have.

Maybe the uncontrolled psoriasis is making you flush?

Try not to be too disappointed, for years I saw a derm who also treated me the same, I think you just have to take what they say and test their diagonsis, if it doens't fit then you move on.

Best wishes and :D

Sarah

[s-kid]

Thanks for your reply. I am going to try the products as you said, very slowly. My skin already seemed to be improving and I don't wanna mess with a good thing, so everything slowly :lol:

unfortunaley alot of derms seem quite ignorant of rosacea especially in someone so young. That was the dermatologist's logic. He told me people my age do not get rosacea and it doesn't affect the chest or cause flaking/dry skin. This is probably what leads me to clash with his diagnosis. I will still keep an open mind about it though.

By the way, I've been reading up on psoriasis (as you do :lol: ) and it seems that certain forms of it are a lot like seb derm, are they related/the same or no?

[phlika29]

Fraid I can't help you with the psoriasis/seb derm question, I know absolutely nothing about it.

You've raised my interest so i'll have a look later and let you know what I find :wink:

sarah

[redhotoz]

Hi s-kid

I agree with Sarah, you do need to go with your own gut feelings. It's obvious that you read about things on-line and can feel what your own skin is doing. I know what it's like to have your questions dismissed by a Derm! Urgh!

Do keep us up-dated.

Jen

P.S. Sarah, I just felt the need to say that you have been a wonderful support here on the Forum! Thank you! :D

[s-kid]

Ok, so I've been doing some light reading about psoriasis and seborrheic dermatitis and it seems there is really very little difference. Apparantly psoriasis tends to bleed easier and is dryer whilst seb derm is greasy. They are also treated with the same types of products so I've come to the conclusion that I have either got one or the other, I'm guessing rosacea and seb derm.

[phlika29]

Hmm fun reading for a saturday :shock:

I take an antihistamine (non drowsy clarityn) every day as I find that it calms the skin from the seb derm. My doctor also suggested this when I had a seb derm flair.

[Froggirl]

Ok, so I'm back from the dermatologist and Dr Lee has prescribed a coal tar solution for my scalp and face (keep in mind I have barely any dandruff or dryness on my scalp) and also salicylic acid.

The part I am worried about is that the derm told me outright, I don't have rosacea. He explained my symptoms with a case of psoriasis. Now I was quite convinced I had rosacea, with permanant redness, and flushing and now this guy tells me it's psoriasis, I'm extremely confused. I asked him about whether flushing accompanies psoriasis and he started talking about redness, so I asked again, and he seemed a little annoyed that I wasn't trusting his diagnosis. As I said, I'm really confused, I payed this guy a lot of money for a 10 minute meeting in which he told me I have different disorder with less than 30 seconds of inspecting my skin, is this normal for derms?

So now I'm worried about taking the tar and salicylic acid, are these harmful to rosacea? Because I don't want to just ruin all of my diet and weeks of using metrocream and have my condition go back to the way it was. I know this guy is a professional and I should trust his judgement but it just seemed as if he wasn't even listening to me, especially when I was telling him about how it was worse before using metrocream...argh, sorry for the long post, I guess I'm right back where I started, scared and confused

I think it would be good for you to get a second opinion. The derm might be right but he didn't seem to listen to you so there is a chance that he missed somthing. The thing is your redness has really cleared up on the rosex so even if you have rosacea it seems that it was under control when you saw him which surely would have made it hard to tell.

The first derm i saw was the same, actually he didn't even look at my skin and he spent five minutes with me and rushed me out the door...all for $160! The second derm i saw was brilliant, he did say pretty much the same things as the first derm but spent over 30 minutes with me taking a detailed history and dicussing, skin care, diet and medications in details. Meaning that i really trusted his diagnosis and advice.

Potentially anything that causes inflammation in the skin can cause some flushing so seb derm or psoriasis could possibly be responsible for you flushing. Rosex can potentially reduced this inflammation too, even if the inflammation is not from rosacea.

Is your skin sensative? I tried tar on my face once (for seb derm) and it really inflammed my skin. I would be wary of saliylic acid too. Maybe you could do some test patching of these products on the least sensative bit of skin you can find. For me my cheeks are terribly sensative whereas the skin on my forehead or chin is much tougher.

The aim of both tar and saliylic acid is that they break down the proteins that hold the flaky skin together, so help to remove the flakes. They won't actually stop the psoriasis or seb derm forming but just reduce the appareance of it.

If you think seb derm is a possibility then you can also buy nizoral cream at any chemist which is gentler than using any antidandruff type shampoos on the face and again patch test it for a few weeks.

There is some good info here:

http://www.dermnetnz.org/scaly/psoriasis-general.html

http://www.dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/seborrhoeic-dermatitis.html

On the page for seb derm is also has a link to both coal tar and salicylic acid, for salicylic acid it says the below which doesn not sound good:

Side Effects
Salicylic acid preparations are usually well tolerated. Mild stinging may occur especially on broken skin and when higher concentrations are used. Salicylic acid can irritate or burn healthy skin so it is important to keep the medicine confined to the affected area(s). Check with your doctor if you:

experience moderate or severe skin irritation (particularly if not present before use of this medicine)
flushing
unusually warm skin and reddening of skin

[s-kid]

Thanks for the help! :D
My skin is fairly sensitive but I haven't tried the tar or acid on my face yet. I'm on school holidays in a few days so I'm going to experiment whilst I don't have anything I have to do. And I think your right about Rozex, I think I read somewhere that it can actually help seb derm a little,not sure about psoriasis. Hopefully I can find a good derm like yours soon! :P

[Jordan]

s-kid: I didn't feel like reading through everyones post, but I did read through to the part where you see a derm and he prescribes you a coal tar solution and tells you it is a form of psoriasis. My opinion, before I read any of that, was also that you had something like psoriasis, more specifically, seborrheic dermatitis. The main indicators are the dandruff, and the flaking on the face. In some of your photos, there are flakes of skin underneath the nostrils. This is a common sympton of a dermatitis of the skin, most likely seborrheic dermatitis. Coal tar would probably irritate your skin a little at first, however it would get used to it within a week I would say. You know your skin best though, don't overdo anything. Let me ask you a question: Do you have a history of steroid use on the skin? This would allow for a steroid induced rosacea case, which would explain many of the rosacea type symptons you are having. These two diseases are the two most misdiagnosed diseases by people on forums and dermatologists. The reason for this is that the symptons are very similar, yet their nature of disease is different, for example, you would say that rosacea is a vascular disorder, while seborrheic dermatitis is dermatitis, a disease that is located in the skin directly. My suggestion would be to use a very gentle soap once a day on your skin, and (possibly) a haircut and apple cider vinegar treatment for the scalp. I personally use a soap called Cetaphil Gentle Cleansing Bar, you can find it at a local drugstore, apple cider vinegar you could find at a foodstore. The reason for this is that from my experience on these boards and many others, is that many people find greater success in treating the disease on both fronts at the same time, the scalp and the face. Sorry if my writing is sort of haphazard, im very tired at the moment. If you have any questions, feel free to respond here or message me. Goodnight.

[s-kid]

s-kid: I didn't feel like reading through everyones post, but I did read through to the part where you see a derm and he prescribes you a coal tar solution and tells you it is a form of psoriasis. My opinion, before I read any of that, was also that you had something like psoriasis, more specifically, seborrheic dermatitis. The main indicators are the dandruff, and the flaking on the face. In some of your photos, there are flakes of skin underneath the nostrils. This is a common sympton of a dermatitis of the skin, most likely seborrheic dermatitis. Coal tar would probably irritate your skin a little at first, however it would get used to it within a week I would say. You know your skin best though, don't overdo anything. Let me ask you a question: Do you have a history of steroid use on the skin? This would allow for a steroid induced rosacea case, which would explain many of the rosacea type symptons you are having. These two diseases are the two most misdiagnosed diseases by people on forums and dermatologists. The reason for this is that the symptons are very similar, yet their nature of disease is different, for example, you would say that rosacea is a vascular disorder, while seborrheic dermatitis is dermatitis, a disease that is located in the skin directly. My suggestion would be to use a very gentle soap once a day on your skin, and (possibly) a haircut and apple cider vinegar treatment for the scalp. I personally use a soap called Cetaphil Gentle Cleansing Bar, you can find it at a local drugstore, apple cider vinegar you could find at a foodstore. The reason for this is that from my experience on these boards and many others, is that many people find greater success in treating the disease on both fronts at the same time, the scalp and the face. Sorry if my writing is sort of haphazard, im very tired at the moment. If you have any questions, feel free to respond here or message me. Goodnight.
Great advice, personally I suspect a mild form of rosacea with seborrheic dermatitis. Yes I used to use a hydrocortisone steroid lotion in my very early teens, mostly around the nose which is probably where I'm the most red at the moment - this is what really makes me beleive I have rosacea aswell. I am planning as I said before to test out the coal tar during my upcoming holidays so hopefully this can confirm a few things. At the moment I'm looking for a new cleanser and looking for some emu oil for moisture so hopefully I can report on that soon too, thanks for the help.

and (possibly) a haircutNever! :lol:

[s-kid]

Ok I thought I'd give a little update. I've started using the coal tar, it's been about a week now and I have noticed some change. Like Jordan said, I found it a little irritating the first day or two I used it but now, no problems at all (apart from the god awful smell). My theory is that as I said before I probably have a mild form of rosacea as well as psoriasis/seb derm which would seem to fit with my current reaction to the coal. My flaking is down a fair bit and my redness has faded slightly but still noticeable. I will keep going with the coal tar for another couple of weeks just to make sure and give another update.

cheers. 8)

[cmburn22]

I'm with Jordan here. It loods alot like Seb derm. Have you tried the Plexion or Rosula pad cleansers? Ask your derm for a sample next time as I (as well as many others on this forum) had initial success with these two products.

Elidel and Protopic might be worth a shot as well, but I'm not a huge fan of topical antifungal creams for this disease (ie Nizoral/Loprox/Lamisil) as they don't seem to have much effect (for me at least) and are most often prescribed.

Keeping the hair on your face and head relatively short helps as well.

cmburn

[s-kid]

Thanks. I just started shaving recently, yes my friend, I am a man :lol: but I like my hair long, at it's current length I can almost tie it back so that will be excellent. I'm just going to try one thing at a time for now and hopefully I wont have to try anything new although I appreciate the advice. I've been using coal tar for almost two weeks now and it really seems to be helping, my redness has faded quite a lot and my flaking is almost non-existant, but not wanting to jinx it I am keeping an open mind and not getting my hopes up too much. I will post a new pic soon to show the changes.

Cheers.

[phlika29]

Hi s-kid

I'm glad that the coal tar is working well. I'm not sure if you use any products on your hair but I sometimes notice that if I use certain ones my skin seems to get worse. I avoid products that leave a silky residue.

Sarah

[s-kid]

Well at the moment I only use head and shoulders conditioner in my hair. No shampoo or any other products, and it doesn't seem to do any harm. And how long have you been a mod, I only just noticed :D

edit:
Here's some pics from today with and without flash.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9983/pict0136vj3.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/13/pict0137ks4.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4413/pict0138xz5.jpg

Still some very minor flaking, so hopefully this will keep working. Still losing weight with the diet too :D

cheers.

[Jordan]

Your skin looks really good. To be honest, kid, I would stop worrying about your skin so much. At this point, even if you didn't treat it, I would imagine it would fade with your age. Lookin' good though.

[phlika29]

Wow s-kid your skin look beautiful. If I were you I would keep doing what you are doing and hopefully it will keep all the redness at bay. I would also stay on the healhty diet though as this is a good longterm lifestyle to adopt.

Became a mod a couple of weeks ago, so far so good :?

Best wishes

Sarah

[Quench]

Your skin is looking great. I take it the coal tar is just for your scalp?

[s-kid]

Nope, the derm I saw told me to use it on the affected area, i.e. my face and scalp if it gives me any problems. I still use it very sparingly though since I'm only trialling it at the moment. The derm said I should use it twice a day and leave it on at night but I've just been applying a small amount during my showers and washing it off before I hop out. I also still add a thin layer of metrocream, I suppose because it's become a sort of safety blanket. Thanks for the kind remarks guys, it does help :wink:

[moomy]

you look great s-kid,

[s-kid]

Ok another quick update. I'm still using the coal tar and almost all of my flaking has dissapeared, however some base redness still remains. I have been extremely weak with my diet of late though so I plan to get back on top of the diet and see how things go.

[phlika29]

Thats great news s-kid. My diet slipped over christmas and new year but I too hope to get back on track.

Now you have graduated what are you up to?

Sarah

[s-kid]

Yes christmas hit me hard too, but it was good to taste sugar once agin :twisted:
Umm, well I'm looking for jobs at the moment, unfortunately I wasn't accepted into university which is a real kick in the guts, but that's another story :lol:

[phlika29]

I'm not sure if you have the same over in the US but we have something here called the Open University. I never went onto further study but am finding that as I get abit older I want to restart my learning and have found doing it through the OU ideal as I can work and then study in my spare time.

Anyway I always think that abit of life experience is a good thing and you can always reapply next year.

Best wishes

Sarah

[moomy]

i

[moomy]

s -kid,
hope things are going well with you. how is the rosacea??
Any job ideas??

and phlika, what are you studying at OU??

best wishes
Moomy

[phlika29]

Moomy

The first year I did a level 1 course called Health and Social Care. The second level was called Working for Health and I've just finished a short course on Human Nutrition. In theory I am working towards a degree in Health Studies. Each one has had loads of interesting areas including why and how women care, how this is undervalued, the role of the biomedical versus the social model of health, barriers to heallth such as poverty, the role and history of complemetary therapy and how it has been excluded from maintstream medical practice, the history of childbirth, etc ,etc.

I have loved all of the courses so far and would defintiely recommend them to anyone wanting to get back into study. The courses make sure that they reteach you to study and have loads of handy pointers. The OU always scores really highly out of all the universities.

Sorry for going on abit.

Sarah

[s-kid]

s -kid,
hope things are going well with you. how is the rosacea??
Any job ideas??

and phlika, what are you studying at OU??

best wishes
MoomyThanks Moomy :D. Well I had some sort of flare up just last week, I'm not sure why but it seems to be fading again, I'm out of metrocream though ahhh!! :lol: No job yet, I swear my mum is going to kill me so I do a lot of housework :lol:

I'm not sure if you have the same over in the US but we have something here called the Open University. I never went onto further study but am finding that as I get abit older I want to restart my learning and have found doing it through the OU ideal as I can work and then study in my spare time.

Anyway I always think that abit of life experience is a good thing and you can always reapply next year.

Best wishes

SarahYeah I think we have something similar here in Australia but unfortunately the course I was looking to enter (or a similar one) isn't provided. It was an animation course which demands a lot of drawing ability so your right I can always apply next year when I'll be a bajillion times better :lol: